When Villains Attack

[pineapple888]

Well, if you're going to call me out by name and all...

In all honesty, I think it's counter-productive to burn lots of mental energy on the debate you describe in the first post when you're talking about the shallow-stack no-limit SNGs that almost all of us here play.

These sorts of plays become important in limit play or in deeper-stack cash games. But in Party SNGs, I might make this play once every 100 tournaments. There's just rarely a reason to get fancy.

In your sample HH, villain could have anything. I'd really have to be sitting at the table to make a decision. Sometimes I'd fold AJ, sometimes I'd call down with middle pair. It all depends whether I think he's FOS or not.

[Dave D]

Hi, I'm usually in the MTT forum, but I check around here sometimes as the $33 party SnGs are my main squeeze.

I've actually been making this move a LOT in SnGs in the last month or two. I pretty much never fold when I do it though, I do it when I have a set or AK w/ a paired K/A. This move was discussed in MTT sometime back as a way to get more value out of agressive villians when you're pretty sure you have them beat, rather than trying to get them to fold. In MTT it was advanced as an alternative to c/ring the flop. Waiting till the turn allows the other guy to feel better about his hand and/or get pissed at you and so he's more likely to pay you off, rather than c/ring the flop which could be seen more easily as "he has me beat". In other words if you c/r the flop, villian might just think "ok, he has me beat, I can't call with my flush draw", whereas doing it on the turn makes him feel more committed to the hand, or maybe even lets him improve a little w/o beating you.

Overall, I see it as an alternative to the c/r, and is a good way to mix things up (as I rarely c/r these days).

[kevkev60614]

Thanks a bunch for the responses. They actually really helped me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
In all honesty, I think it's counter-productive to burn lots of mental energy on the debate you describe in the first post when you're talking about the shallow-stack no-limit SNGs that almost all of us here play.

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely true. But as I described in my OP, it's all about learning how to control pot size, which is valuable even to SNGers. Moreso to those who play on Stars, of course.

[ QUOTE ]
In your sample HH, villain could have anything. I'd really have to be sitting at the table to make a decision. Sometimes I'd fold AJ, sometimes I'd call down with middle pair. It all depends whether I think he's FOS or not.

[/ QUOTE ]This is why I wanted to avoid posting a specific hand. I was wondering whether it was possible to generalize. I'll just chalk this up as "This move is so uncommon to see, it's generally a donk who got hit hard by the turn card." [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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This move was discussed in MTT sometime back

[/ QUOTE ]
Link please?

Thanks again. If anybody else has a comment on the seldom-seen check/call, lead turn line, I'd love to hear it.