building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[good2cu]

This is one of the wrost theards, maybe the wrost, I've ever read on 2+2. Anyone who has ever ran a montecarlo simulator on SNGs knows that even for a SNG player with a 20% ROI (WHICH IS ABOSULTLY CRUSHING THE GAME), no sng player has over a 20% longterm ROI, a 40 buy-in downswing is common. Also the fancy no-showdown plays you are describing are extactly the way NOT to play at SNGs, espically at the long limits, and id surpised if its possible to beat the game playing that way.

[gumpzilla]

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This is one of the wrost theards, maybe the wrost, I've ever read on 2+2.

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Perhaps you should read more, it looks like it might do you some good.

[good2cu]

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Perhaps you should read more, it looks like it might do you some good.

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Granted, I didn't read most of the replies to the OP. But following this bankroll plan and making fancy plays in the early rounds, is a sure way to go broke, fast. SNGs are meant to be played, weak-tight early, and agressivly late and like any form of poker, have a fairly high varaince.

[Copernicus]

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This is one of the wrost theards, maybe the wrost, I've ever read on 2+2. Anyone who has ever ran a montecarlo simulator on SNGs knows that even for a SNG player with a 20% ROI (WHICH IS ABOSULTLY CRUSHING THE GAME), no sng player has over a 20% longterm ROI, a 40 buy-in downswing is common. Also the fancy no-showdown plays you are describing are extactly the way NOT to play at SNGs, espically at the long limits, and id surpised if its possible to beat the game playing that way.

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I dont know how your simulator takes into account the fishy play at low buy in SnGs, but I assure you, 20% ROI is not "crushing the game".

[applejuicekid]

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20% ROI is not "crushing the game"

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This is incorrect. I think the number of people with an ROI higher than 20% is very very low.

[The Don]

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20% ROI is not "crushing the game"

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This is incorrect. I think the number of people with an ROI higher than 20% is very very low.

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True. The percentage of winning players above 20% is in the single digits in my estimation. Assuming we are talking about party of course. Much higher percentages are possiblee on the slow-structured Stars SNGs.

[Copernicus]

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20% ROI is not "crushing the game"

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This is incorrect. I think the number of people with an ROI higher than 20% is very very low.

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I guess that depends on what you define as "crushing the game" but I know 4 people including myself with an ROI of 20%+ for over a year, and mine is just over 30% for 15 months. I certainly don't think I'm an exceptional player overall, straightfoward HoH pretty much. However my shortstack and HU play is extremely good. If I'm close to the money I almost always make it, and if I get to HU, even with a substantial chip deficit, I win well more than my share.

Those are the two weakest areas of low buy in SnG players, and getting close to the money is a no brainer. If it werent for the occasional suck outs (which I define as a dominated hand after the flop) my ROI would be much higher, because those are the times I go out early.

[good2cu]

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He may have run well to hit the 33% but I have ranged from 20% to 40% ROI each month for 14 months of the last 15, with only one month at 10%.

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I think you have been running extremely well, depending on how many SNGs you play a month. Having 14 out of 15 months with a 20% ROI is abosultly amazing, and incredibly luckly. How many SNGs have you played over those 15 months? I also see that you 1-2 table, which i suppose its possible to have a 30% or so ROI at the 33s and under with "perfect play", but I still think that statiscally having 14 out of 15 months at 20%+ ROI is >1%.

[Copernicus]

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He may have run well to hit the 33% but I have ranged from 20% to 40% ROI each month for 14 months of the last 15, with only one month at 10%.

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I think you have been running extremely well, depending on how many SNGs you play a month. Having 14 out of 15 months with a 20% ROI is abosultly amazing, and incredibly luckly. How many SNGs have you played over those 15 months? I also see that you 1-2 table, which i suppose its possible to have a 30% or so ROI at the 33s and under with "perfect play", but I still think that statiscally having 14 out of 15 months at 20%+ ROI is >1%.

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I play 150-200 a month depending on whats going on at work or if I'm playing live at a major event. (I spend a week at the WSOP, the WPF's at Foxwoods, and any large ones in AC. This year I hit the Bellagio for 4 days of the 5 Diamonds as well.) In those ROIs are only 30s and 50s. I play an occasional 100, but those results are much lower, which is why I dont play many of them. That may just be variance too, but I at least perceive the quality of play to be higher in the 100s.

My live SnG/satellite results are similar to online, though my records arent as complete, and of course, there are far fewer of them.

[Exitonly]

these were on pokerstars too.. aren't considerably higher roi's possible on stars w/ their better structure and longer tournaments.