Calling a raise with 98off

[DocHollyday]

Nice 10/20 game online.

I get 89off in the bigblind. A new player in MP just sat down and posted a blind. UTG raises and all fold to me. So there is 55$ in the pot and it costs me 10$ to enter.

I know my hand is quite crap, but on 5.5/1 shot I thought I have enough odds to go for a miracle flop, even if UTG would hold pocket aces.

So I called and indeed hit a miracle flop as straight two nines came down. I won that pot, but besides the results and my feeling that I did play right, would you guys have folded that hand? Thanks for responses...

[I.Rowboat]

It depends. If UTG is solid, I'll probably fold 98o most of the time -- UTG may be trying to pick up the post + the blinds with crap, but it is much more likely that he has a hand. And I will be out of position with a weak draw the whole hand; not my idea of good situation.

Some small, game theory-esque percentage of the time, I will three bet here just to mix up my play and set up a steal on a later street, or call with the intention of check raising on the turn if the flop looks appropriate, such as a single paint with an otherwise uncoordinated board. But I might do this with any two cards if it is headsup. If I flat call to see the flop, it will be either fit or fold on the flop.

The other consideration is that 98 makes lousy straights. The nightmare would be to flop TJQ with this hand when your opponent holds AK, not an unreasonable hand for an UTG raiser to hold.

In the long run, you are generally better off folding and conceding the pot to the UTG raiser.

[Clarkmeister]

I'd definitely play, especially since many people loosen up their preflop raising standards with extra dead money in the pot.

[Duke]

My chips would be in that pot before his.

However, if you're going to play this hand like crap post flop, just muck it. Most of the advice on this site is to play way too tight pre-flop, but that seems to be a good way to keep bad post-flop players out of trouble.

~D

[slavic]

Not sure if it's right or not but I complete with just about anything that doesn't look like Thomastem here.

[rivaridge]

Against an EP raiser (assuming I think the guy knows what he is doing which I will admit is often not the case online) I will usually fold this. I am out of position with a weak hand against an EP raiser and therefore I fold. The alternative of calling and praying I flop the nuts for a 5-1 payoff just doesnt seem good enough here.

[Clarkmeister]

You don't need to flop the nuts, you need to flop a pair.

Now if your mindset is such that you don't feel comfortable unless you *do* flop 2 pair or better, maybe you need to work on your shorthanded postflop gameplay.

[I.Rowboat]

But the UTG raiser wasn't raising a short handed game -- he was raising a full table. That it will be headsup if you call is only one factor in the decision to call. The other has to be the quality of the hand you will be facing in this situation. Your hope is that your opponent only has high cards, and that you hit something while he misses completely, but he may also be open raising with any pair 99-AA. If you want to take 98o against a pair of 9s or higher for a second bet, I'd like to play with you on a regular basis [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Seriously, anyone can call here and hope to get lucky, but the best play in the long run is going to be to save your chips for better situations. Make your loose calls on the other side of the button.

[Mackie]

You are ignoring the fact that a middle position player posted. If UTG is an aware player, he will now raise with a wider variety of hands than normal. This is an easy call, I'd I'd be happy to flop top pair here most of the time.

[Clarkmeister]

As you noted, by shorthanded in this instance I meant headsup postflop.

The pot more than compensates you for the times that he has an overpair. The flipside of your comment is that if you fold these hands against me with that much dead money in the pot I'd love to have you in my game. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Heck, basically you are saying you should fold anything but AK or AA-QQ here. What are you going to do with like 55 and the flop comes 9-7-3, check-fold? Yeah, you can get your needed odds when you flop a set, but you set yourself up to give up tons of EV by folding incorrectly postflop when you are best.

Some people simply aren't comfortable playing headsup here. I happen to feel its a strength of my game when I'm on. Considering the overlay the pot is laying me (and its a huge overlay considering even a moderate range of hands) there's no way I'm giving up the EV that is sittig right in front of my face by folding. That extra dead blind money makes a big difference IMO.