a bunch of 20-40 errors

[mike l.]

i made $3100 last night playing 20-40 but i left at least $600 behind. thought id share.

1. i have Ac8c on the button. we're 5 handed. bad player utg openraises, he's not too sharp, he's loose and chases/calls like crazy postflop. i 3 bet on the button. bb fish calls, utg calls. the flop is KK7 two spades. checked to me and i bet, bb calls, utg calls. turn is an 8. checked to me and i bet, bb folds, utg checkraises, i call. 4s on river, i call his river bet, he has KhQh. $200 in the toilet.

2. i have 76s in the bb. c/o decent but on tilt openraises, button very good but somewhat tilted as well 3 bets, folded to me and i call in the bb. 3 way pot. flop completely missed K high and i check-fold. should i have saved $40? probably yes.

3. 43d in the sb. one limper fish, i complete, bb checks. 3 way pot. flop is KhKdQd. i bet and limper calls. turn is 8s. i bet and am called. river is Jc. i bet, he raises, i fold. how bad was this hand?

4. 8h6h in the cutoff. limper fish, good player raises, fish cold calls, another fish (me) cold calls, button calls, bb and limper call. 6 way action. flop QhJh2d. checked to raiser who bets, fish calls, i call, someone else calls. the turn is blank spade. raiser bets, fish calls, i call. the river blanks. raiser bets, fold, fold. raiser shows AsAc. fish caller shows Ah5h. so i was drawing dead. i love drawing dead. $100 donation to a good player. smart poker.

5. here's a real zinger. i have AJs in mp. i openraise. button cold calls, sb and bb call. bb normally plays decent but is stuck on tilt and playing loose. flop is J42 rainbow. checked to me and i bet, button and sb fold, bb checkraises, i 3 bet, he 4 bets, i call. the turn is K. he bets, i call. the river is J. he bets, warning signals are sceaming at me to flat call, but i figure screw it and raise, he reraises immediately and i pay off like a stupid monkey slot machine and he shows J2o. so $280 on that one. golly im good.

anyone else still make mistakes like this as regularly as i do? what the hell is wrong with me? im tired of sucking at hold em, i could be making so much more if i didnt bleed chips like this.

[Diplomat]

[ QUOTE ]
i made $3100 last night playing 20-40 but i left at least $600 behind. thought id share.


[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading here for a second. What is it that you are complaining about? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I might fold hand 1 pre-flop but I think you played it fine otherwise. Generally, I don't like suited aces with a medium/small kicker against an aggressor, even short handed. But if you are going to play it, I like the raise.

I'm going to group hands 2 and 4 together. Bad. Enough said.

Hand 3 I'd fold as well. I kinda like the call because 1. you play well 2. they do not 3. you might be able to bluff them off a hand 4. they might pay you off if you hit your hand. That said, 34s does not play well against many other hands, besides 23 and 24. So I'd probably save the small bet and fold. Given that you called, I'd probably give up when the limper called the flop.

Hand 5 kinda sucks but you cannot do much. If he plays well most of the time, even though he's on tilt, at best you've got a crying call on the river. He did you a favour on the flop and turn by pumping his hand. He more or less said AJ or any overpair is no good. Just call the river.

-Diplomat

[mikelow]

Hand one--fold the turn.
Hand two--yes you should fold preflop.
Hand three--check the turn and forget about bluffing on the river.
Hand four--I thought you would never call cold preflop with 86s.
Hand five--the storm warnings were out. Just call on the river.

Other than that, you're the best!

[Billy LTL]

Hi Mike.

1. Ac8c. I check behind on the turn, even though the turn card hit my hand. Well, kind of hit my hand. Weak play? Maybe, but I always seem to get checkraised at some point when I take control of hands like this. You bet out on the flop and got two callers. Damage control time.

2. 76s in the bb for two bets? I fold. I'm not good enough in the blinds to make money here. What I hate about such hands is that when I do call two cold preflop and then fold on the flop I imagine a sign appears above my head reading "Hunting season on Billy's blinds opens today. Take your shot."

3. 43s in the small blind? I reckon you're a lot more comfortable playing it when the flop partially hits so I don't know if calling is a mistake for you but it would be for me.

4. 8h6h. I fold preflop here. I don't like it when good player's open raise and I hold suited trash. Unless I feel my cards are good enough warrant a raise.

5. AJ? Yes, you probably should have seen it coming and just called one river bet. Your opponent was certainly trying to tell you what he had. Worth noting that this is a great "armchair quarterback" hand ie I'll bet a lot of people here say something similar to what I'm saying but a lot of those same people, including me, would probably have played it like you did.

Billy

[andyfox]

"i made $3100 last night playing 20-40 v. . ."

Holy crumb, man, don't you ever lose?

Hey, serously, that's a helluva nice score in a 20-40.

"but i left at least $600 behind. thought id share."

You've already shared the best part. If we really want to be better players, the $3100 win should be irrelevant except if it should have been $3700 or $2500.

"anyone else still make like mistakes like this as regularly as i do?"

Yes, we all do, all the time. But hopefully we also do many more things right than we do wrong. And hopefully we're doing more things right as we continue to play better, and do less things wrong. The important question is how much you feel you would have left behind 6 months ago. If it was more than $600, then you're making progress.

My thoughts on the specific hands:

1) Not unreasonable. Shorthanded and all with the spade draw on board. I'd probably have checked the turn and called the river, but that's risky with only a pair of 8s.

2) Seven high should be folded to two raises, don't you think? Probably yes.

3) Look at the first card only, when it's a 4 or a 3, fold without looking at the second card. I used to only do this with deuces, I've now raised my standards up to 4s. I expect to be up to 6s by 2005.

4) Feh.

5) Yeah, he pretty much told you he could beat A-J on the flop.

I'm much more interested in the good plays you made because I'm sure there are many more of them, and we who play a different game than you, can benefit.

[Billy LTL]

[ QUOTE ]
Look at the first card only, when it's a 4 or a 3, fold without looking at the second card. I used to only do this with deuces, I've now raised my standards up to 4s. I expect to be up to 6s by 2005.


[/ QUOTE ]

In Killer Poker Vorhaus says something interesting about this "look at one card and fold" strategy. I'm typing it out directly from the book. Apologies to John or 2+2 if I'm breaking the rules. I'm not sure about copyright policies.

""Sometimes you'll see an opponent look at his first card and then muck his hand (or mentally muck, a decision betrayed by body language) without even looking at his second card. Here you can be sure this is a player who understands the danger of little poison. He knows that if his first card is small, then he's not going to play the hand even if the second card is a suited ace or a pair card. Well! This is valuable information no doubt. It tells you that if this player is in a hand, he's in there with the top half of the deck. That's a hell of an edge for you.""

For what it's worth Andy.

[andyfox]

I'd rather have them know I'm in there with the top half of the deck than play out of position with the bottom half of the deck.

However . . .

I once went over to say hello to a fellow 2+2er who plays extremely well, better than I do. He wanted to talk to me but had already received his first card UTG. It was an 8. He said wait one second. He then got his second card. It too was an 8. He then folded and we talked.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Mike:

Let me address your #2. With a hand like 76s you are looking either for good implied odds or want to play (out of the blind) against a raiser who may possibly hold a weak hand. Once it goes to three bets it looks like both of these are violated even though you describe the three bettor as being somewhat tilted.

Best wishes,
Mason

[nykenny]

1. u sucked on the turn
2. u sucked btf
3. u sucked btf
4. u sucked btf
5. u sucked on the river

who did u win 3100 from? me? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

just kidding (semi-kidding). i always like your situational style of poker (hold'em). but these mistakes hurt! my advice as a friend who you have never met: stay out of trouble.

Keep winning! CA casinos are free money!

Kenny

[Michael J. Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
i have Ac8c on the button. we're 5 handed. bad player utg openraises, he's not too sharp, he's loose and chases/calls like crazy postflop. i 3 bet on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am surprised nobody has taken issue with this preflop play. Unless your calling station opponent also raises with a lot of junk, this seems like a fold to me.

If utg did have low raising standards and one or both blinds were also bad/loose players, I would be tempted to just call with A8s (and other decent multiway hands with some high card strength). I am not confident in my short-handed preflop play, however, so I would appreciate opinions on the relative value of folding, calling, or raising with a hand like A8s in this situation (assuming a very loose and somewhat aggressive early raiser).

-MJS