2 hands, TP and overpair when board pairs on turn

RustyCJ · #1 12-16-2005, 05:18 PM

I have trouble knowing when to see SD with these kinds of situations, especially when it is HU.

Hand 1 - MP2 was 45/3.2/0.8 after 31 hands, however at the time his hand was played I only had about 2 rotations with him, so really no read at the time.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, 3 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Hand 2 - UTG+2 was 67/13/.67 after 90 hands

The turn donk worried me but I see just as many donks with a T here as well.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (16.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 18.25 BB

#2 12-16-2005, 05:25 PM

Hand 1 - Well played. I would see SD here as cheaply as possible after the turn raise and you did.

Hand 2 - UTG+1 overcalling is a little of a concern but Again, well played.

I'm guesssing were up against trips or better in both hands but there is enough possibility that they are being aggro. with a worse two pair that I will still see showdown.

RustyCJ · #3 12-16-2005, 05:29 PM

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Hand 2 - UTG+1 overcalling is a little of a concern but Again, well played.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I was concerned about his calling the flop too, that led me to want to raise the turn, I didn't want to just call that turn and let UTG+1 draw cheaply. I was somewhat nervous with him just calling the turn but he could just as easily be drawing as have a monster.

nomadtla · #4 12-16-2005, 05:46 PM

*Grunch*
I have a hard time in these situations as well. If you don't call down enough people will start taking shots, if you call down to much you spew, and have stats that look like mine [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Hand 1:
I just don't see anything else he could be holding here that would check/raise a PFR'er on this turn. Like that. If you call the turn I think you have to call the river. So the question on the turn is are we good 2:7.75, or about 1:4. Since you said you had no read at the time I think I have to fold this turn. Let someone else spend bets to let you see what he does this kinda move with, but don't waste your own.

Hand 2:
Does this guy bet middle pair on the flop into the PFR? If he put you on overs I think he might. But he might also bet a flush/straight draw here too. I like the flop raise (of course) and the turn raise. I think his 3bet on the turn says he can beat a single pair. The pot is bigger but his turn 3 bet is a strong move from your average micro player. I think a fold is deffinately in order.

** With all that said, I will say what I preach and what I practice are not allways the same. I think in the heat of battle I would play them both the same and then cry when they turn over their cards. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

#5 12-16-2005, 05:51 PM

I think you played them well. I'm assuming you were probably beat and they were not making plays on you since both villian's aggro factors were so low. It doesn't seem like they are the type of players to get tricky with any plays here. I might think about a fold in hand 2 to the 3-bet, but probably not.

#6 12-16-2005, 05:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 - UTG+1 overcalling is a little of a concern but Again, well played.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I was concerned about his calling the flop too, that led me to want to raise the turn, I didn't want to just call that turn and let UTG+1 draw cheaply. I was somewhat nervous with him just calling the turn but he could just as easily be drawing as have a monster.

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Yeah, I really like the turn raise (and on the flop). This is a lesson I wish I had learned earlier on. To simply call when the bet is directly on your right just gives those yet to act too good of odds to continue. If it is good enough to call, you should probably raise in these situations.

nomadtla · #7 12-16-2005, 06:03 PM

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since both villian's aggro factors were so low.

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When compared with their VPIP these AF are not as passive as they look. SEE HERE

Though they are a bit more agro then they first seem, I still don't see many micro players get this fancy on the turn w/out being able to beat TP. And believe me I've called down a lot of them.