no limit in vegas

[bad beetz]

ddddddddoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodddddddddd.

maybe.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
which is fun too cause rocks fold and grumble and it's fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like that you too can appreciate the fun of that. Of course, it's even more fun when you're stumbling drunk.

[Chairman of the Board]

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[Homer]

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would anyone want to meet up with you?

Uhh, because she seems like a nice person, and it's fun to meet new people.

You have a big nose and a face that would stop a mac truck.

What picture were you looking at?

Go troll somewhere else, dickhead.

-- Homer

[/ QUOTE ]
Gawd, how did he know? I thought I disguised my nose with makeup. Rats! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

At any rate, I'm married. But like Homer said, it's fun to meet up with other players. Thanks for the reply, Homer.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you mind posting a mini-report on how the game was? Sounds intriguing.

[/ QUOTE ]
I absolutely will post a report, win or lose. I will probably lose, as I've heard there are some real sharks at the NLHE game at the Shoe. In any case, it will be great, and I'll make the report as interesting and thorough as possible.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
Cool! What kind of stacks should we buy in with?

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, I believe it's $100 min/max buy-in. So you are absolutely limited to winning $100 per hand from me. Since I am such a rock, those hands won't come up very often, and I will probably have the best starting hand before the flop, and the nuts after. So you will have to play quite a few days with me to get a real profit.

I just know it can be done though, if you try hard enough, because, as you well know, there is only one way to play a hand in any position at any time. It's just like Blackjack, very rigid. You should never play a certain hand in a certain position other than absolute, 100% proper strategy. You should never, ever vary your play. Isn't that what Sklansky says in TOP? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Btw, your comments and constructive criticism of the 10/20 hand was fine. Some of the comments, however, were out of line and sounded like the people doing the criticism had never played live poker in their lives. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL, I believe it's $100 min/max buy-in. So you are absolutely limited to winning $100 per hand from me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yuck. I can't beat those games. I mean, I know how to, I just can't.

[ QUOTE ]
You should never, ever vary your play. Isn't that what Sklansky says in TOP? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, haven't read it. That doesn't sound very fun, though. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Btw, your comments and constructive criticism of the 10/20 hand was fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hope they helped.

Unfortunately, I'm not going to Vegas 'til Dec. 5, so don't think I'll get to meet you guys. Actually, I rarely play poker in Vegas anyway - you can usually find me in a drunken stupor at a blackjack or craps table. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[FeliciaLee]

Okay, so almost everything I "heard" about the NLHE game at the Shoe was wrong.

Isn't that always the way things are?

First off, the buy-in really was $100, but that was the minimum, not a min/max, like I'd been led to believe.

The chip lead had about $600 on the table, so I made sure to have $600, as well. The average stack was about $150.

I sat down at an eight handed game. The max rake was 10% maxium of $4.00, no bb jackpot drop.

The blinds were $1.00 & $2.00. No posting, no missed blinds. If you were seated, you were dealt in.

The players seemed to smell "fish" when I sat down, which is probably how they judge any new player, on a weekday, until they are proven otherwise. Some of them watched my hands and the way I handled the chips and my cards.

I cannot lie and say this game was exciting. The fact of the matter was that it was boring and very predictable. The players were extremely tight, most of the time limping in for $2.00, or folding to a pre-flop bet. Bets varied. Some players raised to $10, others to $12. Those were the most common raises.

Sometimes a player would raise quite a bit more, if there were several limpers, or the pot had already been raised.

It was usually very easy to spot a failed steal attempt. A player raised to $7, $10 or $12. Another player called. The flop came down and the original raiser usually checked, if in first position, or folded to any bet, if in last position.

I spotted a few steal, re-steal attempts. They were always amusing, and several times were shown down on the river, unless one of the bluffers decided to try to buy the pot with a large bet if a scare card hit.

I was disappointed in some of the players. They all seemed to know how to play poker, but some still hadn't progressed beyond little novice mistakes like re-checking their hole cards if there was a flush draw. I tried to see if this
was an acting technique, but I never got any indication that someone was trying to "fool" me into thinking he didn't know what he had.

The game rapidly disintegrated when players realized that I was no fish, yet no new players came into the game. They all seemed to know each other, but none of them really played much better than the others.

There was a young guy in the one seat who seemed to have a pretty good feel for NLHE. He obviously didn't know that the one seat wasn't the best seat, nor did he memorize his hole cards, but he had a good feel for the game, and usually played well, knowing when to steal, when to raise and fold. In one key hand, however, he was snared.

As all very aggressive players know, a good hand can get snapped off by other players refusing to believe that every time we raise, we have something. He bluffed so much that another player hurt him. The player was the six seat, an
older man who had no nose (cancer?). The kid in the one seat let him see a free flop in the big blind. When the flop came down rags, the six seat bet $20, I believe. The kid raised him $40 more. The man called. The turn brought a scare card, the six seat checked and the kid bet $60. The six went all-in for about $125, and the kid called. The six seat had flopped top pair (sevens), then rivered two pair, with 75o.

The man's hands were shaking so badly that I'm surprised the kid even continued to bet. It was pretty obvious to me that the man was sick of the kid raising almost every hand, in an attempt to either steal the pot altogether, or bluff at it later. Although the kid didn't show his hand, he did say something about being rivered, so I would assume maybe he had a seven also, with a better kicker. That is what I put him on, anyway. Who knows. He seemed like he lost with the best hand on the turn, he didn't seem to be "acting," like he'd been bluffing all along.

The kid was able to steal some pots from me. I knew it, he knew it. I was trying to get a feel for him in the first hour, find some tells. He was smart enough to look at me when the flop came down, not at the flop. Like I said, he
had some sense.

Most of this game was played before the flop, as are most NLHE games I've run across. We saw quite a few flops unraised, for $2 each, but most were raised.

The players seemed to be very interested in just stealing the blinds. They would raise $7, $10, $12 into a $3.00 pot. Sometimes more. They liked to win a lot of
tiny pots, that seemed to make them happy.

I lost a flush draw with A4s, and spent about $25 chasing it.

I got pocket queens and raised too much, only stealing the blinds. At the time, the pre-flop raises were getting more and more outrageous, with someone usually calling. So I made it $25, but I guess they knew that "I" am not "them," so they dropped like flies.

Once I had pocket aces in the big blind. The pot was raised to $12 by the kid. The second seat, sensing a bluff, called. I raised to $37. They both hemmed and
hawed like Hollywood, but eventually folded. I wouldn't have minded one caller, but I kind of wanted the hand head's up.

In late position, shorthanded, I raised $25 with pocket nines and was re-raised $100. The small blind showed me kings.

We went from eight handed to three handed. There was no rake when we got below seven. We got back to five, one of them being a real fish, who busted out in no time at all. They smelled blood and went after him. I only got one small pot off of him, but he only played maybe ten hands before he was busted.

One thing that they seemed to do 100% of the time, when we were shorthanded, was straddle, to either buy the button, or a later position. At first I thought this was lame, but then began to realize that since they truly never wanted to see a flop, it was worth the $4.00 to buy a later position.

The game was stale and boring. The players were so predictable. When we got back to four again, I decided to call it a night. I was down $37, having been slightly up and down, but mostly even, for the two hours that I played.

I don't think I'll join the game again, at least, not during the week. One of the players told me that the game is very good on the weekends. Lots of tourists, lots of new WPT viewers. Maybe I'll go back on Friday and see how it is. He says I'll do well, he seemed to want to "make friends" with me. Although I felt that I held my own, I certainly didn't think I was the best player in the game. These guys play against each other every day, and only had to read ME, as they were all gunning for me, while mostly staying out of each other's way. I felt exposed and sometimes manipulated. I certainly would like a few weak players and/or tourists, not just the local grinders.

So ends me disappointing NLHE trip report to the Horseshoe. Wish I could have had some more exciting news, but the plain truth was, I was bored to tears and
would have rather been playing 15/30 at Bellagio, or in some juicy tourney.

Play well!

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Felicia:

Well now you know.

What you experienced is very typical of these games and is part of the reason they virtually never get spread in any of the "real" poker rooms.

20 years ago there were no limit and pot limit games that went on a regular basis, and I guess they were pretty good at times. But those days ended a long time ago.

In fact, at the major tournaments no limit hold 'em doesn't get spread as a side game anymore, and there isn't much pot limit hold 'em left. Of course things can be different on the Internet where there are many new players of which some are expressing an interest in no limit ring games.

best wishes,
mason