Could I have gotten away from this hand?

[MLG]

yup, I rule. Dont slow play the flop, and maybe you dont go broke, but you probably do anyway.

[darydarling]

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Completely different situation if you just call his turn raise and he checks the river.

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Of course. Also more interesting, to my mind.

I'd also like to point out that "fold preflop" is not a helpful piece of advice here. Limping behind with QJ on the button with stacks this deep is extremely reasonable.

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If you can't raise it don't play it.

I don't always live by this motto, because it does not fit every poker situation, but it fits most.

Q/J is a trap hand, and he got trapped with it. If you're gonna play it with only one limper in front of you why not raise it?

If it's raised and the big blind and limper calls you now have a better idea where they stand in the hand...especially on the turn when you're now all of a sudden getting action.

[MLG]

This is stupid. Of course you can play QJ on the button here and raising it while ok occasionally is certainly not mandatory. If you cant limp behind with that hand profitably here then you really really need to improve your postflop skills.

[Bandgeek]

Ok here's what I learned so far.
Limping behind from the button was a decent play.

Not leading on the flop was a bad play because of the possible draws. I should have made a pot sized bet on the flop to give the draws the wrong odds to chase.

The big raise on the turn was ok, when he called maybe alarms should have gone off. However I've seen so many people push all in or call an all in on the flop/turn on pstars MTT's with nothing but a flush or straight draw that it wasn't out of the question to put villian on this hand.

My BIG mistake was pushing on the river because the only hand that will call my bet is a hand that beats me. (I need to re-read Theory of Poker....again)
None of the draws got there and I was so excited about getting paid off by a weaker Jack or just a pair of 8's that I didn't think it through.

[adanthar]

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Ok here's what I learned so far.
Limping behind from the button was a decent play.

Not leading on the flop was a bad play because of the possible draws.

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OK so far.

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I should have made a pot sized bet on the flop to give the draws the wrong odds to chase.

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Who cares about theoretical draws with 1 limper plus a random hand in? You want to bet so 44 can call, or to make the pot bigger, or to see if another jack is out/let BB's J4o CR you. There are lots of reasons to bet, and most of them actually say to bet less than the pot.

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The big raise on the turn was ok, when he called maybe alarms should have gone off.

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No, the alarms should've gone off when he 3 bet.


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My BIG mistake was pushing on the river because the only hand that will call my bet is a hand that beats me. (I need to re-read Theory of Poker....again)
None of the draws got there and I was so excited about getting paid off by a weaker Jack or just a pair of 8's that I didn't think it through.

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What, JTo folds? Of course not, it's a low buyin MTT. Your mistake isn't pushing the river, it's not putting him on a range on the turn when that could've done you some good.

[gumpzilla]

Much of this advice is context dependent. Limping behind is not necessarily bad, but it's important to ask yourself: are you going to lose 100 BBs if you flop top pair Q kicker and somebody outkicks you/flops two pair, etc.? Probably the reason that most people dislike hands like QJ is because it forces you to make tough decisions along this line.

I personally thought your turn raise was a little too large, but it probably wasn't terrible. I think you're right that the big mistake is the river push. Given the turn action and no read, I pretty happily check behind on this river.

[Bandgeek]

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Much of this advice is context dependent. Limping behind is not necessarily bad, but it's important to ask yourself: are you going to lose 100 BBs if you flop top pair Q kicker and somebody outkicks you/flops two pair, etc.? Probably the reason that most people dislike hands like QJ is because it forces you to make tough decisions along this line.

I personally thought your turn raise was a little too large, but it probably wasn't terrible. I think you're right that the big mistake is the river push. Given the turn action and no read, I pretty happily check behind on this river.

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I don't have a problem playing QJo here because I know I can get away from the hand if I flop just a Q or J and there's too much heat.
I'm looking for a great flop of trips, two pair (if no other straight cards are out) or an OESD because the implied odds are huge given the stack sizes.
Otherwise I muck it and it only cost me one bet to see the flop.