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#1
11-02-2003, 03:13 PM
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Near-family pots, gutshots, and implied odds
Testing the waters at a new (to me) poker site I sit in one of their $2/4 games and for the next several rotations watch painfully as my big pair and top pair top kicker hands go down in flames as there are consistently 5-6 seeing the flop on average. Many loose passive and a couple of loose aggressives in this game. So when in Rome...
In MP I'm dealt 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and limp after 2 limpers. Normally I'd probably fold this but in this game 3 of the 4 players to my left are virtually dead solid locks to call. As it happens, two of the three do call as does SB, then BB, one of the 2 LAPs in the game, raises and all call, so 7 of us see the flop of Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for 2 bets each. SB checks, BB bets, both limpers before me again call and with the gutshot I call getting 9:1 but with good implied odds considering who is sitting to my left. With the flush draw out and so many players in this was a borderline call as well but again, one small bet in a pot that is already big and has the potential to be huge. Everybody else but SB calls so six of us see the semi-beautiful 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the turn. Now yet another flush draw out. BB again bets out, UTG raises, and I 3-bet. I don't know if a 3-bet is going to chase any of the flush draws that are probably in out of there but I at least want them to think about folding, plus the pot is very big. Anyway, one of the two players to my left also calls and it is folded around to BB who calls, as does UTG. I count 22 big bets in the pot now and I pray to the poker gods for a blank. River is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (whew, ty lord) and BB who apparently is not convinced bets out, UTG again calls, I raise, LP player folds, and both others call my raise. Both mucked so I have no idea. I only wrote this up because it is evidence to support an idea I read in Carson's book that you have to adjust your play to the conditions at hand. Flame away. 
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#2
11-02-2003, 03:26 PM
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Re: Near-family pots, gutshots, and implied odds
I don't care how many people I expect I would not call with 78o. Suited I would call unless lots of hands were being 3 bet preflop at this table. At least one of the LAPs was still to act, what about the other one? Rest of the hand was fine. I agree you need to adjust to table conditions, I just think you overdid it a bit.
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#3
11-02-2003, 03:58 PM
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Re: Near-family pots, gutshots, and implied odds
[ QUOTE ]
At least one of the LAPs was still to act, what about the other one? [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, left that small detail out. The other, uncharacteristically, had folded in EP. Upon rereading, I see I also left off that the player between UTG and me folded to UTG's raise on the turn. I also see I was getting 18:1 not 9:1 on the flop call. Doh!
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#4
11-04-2003, 02:23 PM
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Re: Near-family pots, gutshots, and implied odds
This is still a piece of crap before the flop. Unsuited hands do NOT go up in value as the number of loose callers goes up; many go down.
I count you getting 17:1 to draw to your gut draw on the flop. 9:1 would be if you knew it was getting raised (which is a clear possibility). - Louie
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#5
11-04-2003, 03:37 PM
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Re: Near-family pots, gutshots, and implied odds
I think you still need to muck this PF...limpers be damned! Suited it's a different ball of wax, but offsuit, the flop has to hit you very hard to play this at all. Even then, I'm pretty much play my suited connectors only in the CO or Button.
Sarge [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
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#6
11-04-2003, 04:04 PM
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Re: Near-family pots, gutshots, and implied odds
Many loose passive and a couple of loose aggressives in this game. So when in Rome...
This is what players say to themselves when they're tilting. This hand should've been mucking preflop without a second thought. Horrible play. After this hand you should've sat out for while until you could get your emotions under control and not let them affect your play.
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#7
11-04-2003, 04:31 PM
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Re: Near-family pots, gutshots, and implied odds
[ QUOTE ]
In MP I'm dealt 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and limp after 2 limpers. [/ QUOTE ] I stopped reading after this.
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#8
11-04-2003, 04:59 PM
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Re: Near-family pots, gutshots, and implied odds
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] In MP I'm dealt 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and limp after 2 limpers. [/ QUOTE ] I stopped reading after this. [/ QUOTE ] I got a little further [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]: [ QUOTE ] In MP I'm dealt 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and limp after 2 limpers. Normally I'd probably fold this [/ QUOTE ]
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#9
11-04-2003, 05:58 PM
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Re: Near-family pots, gutshots, and implied odds
Heck, if you can see the flop cheap, why not. As long as you don't do this all the time, there is nothing wrong with mixing it up. You needed to get even and you did. You won the money. Who cares about statistics.
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#10
11-04-2003, 06:08 PM
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Re: Near-family pots, gutshots, and implied odds
[ QUOTE ]
I only wrote this up because it is evidence to support an idea I read in Carson's book that you have to adjust your play to the conditions at hand. Flame away. [/ QUOTE ] The idea is correct. But the adjustment in this case is to absolutely muck hands like this (which you should be doing anyway). Unsuited middle connectors like this are going to be even bigger losers than normal in a game where the norm is raised multi-way pots.
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