Some Offsuit hand Winrates

[Spicymoose]

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still don't get how any of this is usefull.

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It's not useful. It's completely useless, irrelevant information. Knowing the overal expectation of a hand serves no purpose whatsoever, academic, practical, or otherwise. Please, don't waste any more of your time with this useless thread.

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Meh. Although I disagree with you, there could be something that you could draw out of your results. I just don't see what that could be, and I am asking you how you intend to use these numbers. I guess I will see when you finally complete everything. My main reason for putting so much pressure in this thread is because I honestly think that you will gain so much more if you seperate things out, rather than clumping everything together.

I may sound harsh, but I am honestly posting so that I can learn more, along with everyone else who may read this thread or results. If I am wrong about the clumping, then I am wrong, but I would like to know why I am wrong.

Actually I apologize for getting sarcastic before.

I am just cataloging overall winrates with some hands. The end result will be a post that will contain the average winrate of these hands across a wide range of good 6 max players; a result that exists nowhere that I know of on the internet. It will be available as a reference for anyone who wants to see it by searching for this post. This clearly does not cause any harm. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to provide resistance to this thread. If you have an idea for some other statistical project then I more than welcome you to spearhead it.

Good luck,
-v

[Victor]

you still arent taking into account vpip. why?

Victor,

I could ask people to break down their winrates by position, i.e.

Button #times, winrate
Cutoff #times, winrate
SB #times, winrate
BB #times, winrate

We would need about 4 times the number of people responding to THAT request to get a statistically sufficient sample (actually many more than that since there will be fewer samples in the earlier positions).

Even more, we can ask people to submit their VPIPs in each position along with their positional winrates. But then, we run into some problems: what does it mean if one guy plays K9o a lot more in the big blind than another guy but his winrate is lower? Does it mean he should tighten up? Or could he just be running bad? To answer these questions we would need twice as many people as before, one group with higher vpips and one group with lower vpips. So, to even get close to a statistically sufficient sample size, we need to ask for an all-inclusive stat (like overall winrate) that people will have a lot of samples for.

The other major reason to stick to simple overall winrate is that if you ask for something complicated, you will get even FEWER people responding to your post. If you don't believe me look here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=1&vc=1

-v

[Victor]

all im saying is vpip skews winrate a ton.

just bc i have k9 20k times, if my vpip is 10 then well....you the math aman....what do you think

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all im saying is vpip skews winrate a ton.


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I agree completely.

However there's not much I can do that's useful with vpip unless I have many people in each 'vpip range.' Once we're done here we'll have an average winrate for these hands, independent of vpip. Then you can ask questions like:

"Can I do better than this average by increasing (or decreasing) my vpip with this hand?"

"Can I do better than this average by just playing better with this hand while maintaining my current vpip?"

Answering those questions will be tough because by yourself you won't have a large sample size. But at least you'll have an accurate metric to compare yourself against: the average winrate of a large number of winning players.