Top two on coordinated flop, facing a raise.

[larrondo]

It's .50-1 NL. All relevant stacks are about fifty bucks. Table is been mostly passive and loose pre-flop. Hero is in MP and limps with 10 J off. MP 2, a loose and passive player, limps and the Villain on the button, a fairly tight (for this table,) aggressive and semi-tricky player, makes a small raise to 2 bucks. Blinds fold, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Pot= $7.50

The flop: 9, 10, J, rainbow.
Hero bets $8.00 with top two. Passive MP makes a sad little call. He could have middle pair and an undercard, whatever. Villainous Button, however, raises to 30 bucks. MP 2 makes a disgusted noise-- he's going to fold. But what about our hero? Villainous Button could have trips or a straight, but might he have QJs or AJs?

What would your inclination be? Is it strictly read-dependent? Would your answer be different if there was a two-flush on board? How marginal is your decision?

Thanks for your insight.

[AllIn3High]

[ QUOTE ]
It's .50-1 NL. All relevant stacks are about fifty bucks. Table is been mostly passive and loose pre-flop. Hero is in MP and limps with 10 J off. MP 2, a loose and passive player, limps and the Villain on the button, a fairly tight (for this table,) aggressive and semi-tricky player, makes a small raise to 2 bucks. Blinds fold, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Pot= $7.50

The flop: 9, 10, J, rainbow.
Hero bets $8.00 with top two. Passive MP makes a sad little call. He could have middle pair and an undercard, whatever. Villainous Button, however, raises to 30 bucks. MP 2 makes a disgusted noise-- he's going to fold. But what about our hero? Villainous Button could have trips or a straight, but might he have QJs or AJs?

What would your inclination be? Is it strictly read-dependent? Would your answer be different if there was a two-flush on board? How marginal is your decision?

Thanks for your insight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would fold. If it was heads up the situation might be a little more tricky, but with the calling station between you and villian it's far less likely he's putting a play on you.

[larrondo]

So if it was heads up, you'd likely call?

Do people generally agree with this?

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's .50-1 NL. All relevant stacks are about fifty bucks. Table is been mostly passive and loose pre-flop. Hero is in MP and limps with 10 J off. MP 2, a loose and passive player, limps and the Villain on the button, a fairly tight (for this table,) aggressive and semi-tricky player, makes a small raise to 2 bucks. Blinds fold, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Pot= $7.50

The flop: 9, 10, J, rainbow.
Hero bets $8.00 with top two. Passive MP makes a sad little call. He could have middle pair and an undercard, whatever. Villainous Button, however, raises to 30 bucks. MP 2 makes a disgusted noise-- he's going to fold. But what about our hero? Villainous Button could have trips or a straight, but might he have QJs or AJs?

What would your inclination be? Is it strictly read-dependent? Would your answer be different if there was a two-flush on board? How marginal is your decision?

Thanks for your insight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would fold. If it was heads up the situation might be a little more tricky, but with the calling station between you and villian it's far less likely he's putting a play on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't the callign station pad his odds for making a move too? He could easily have a good J or QJ or something and expect both a call from calling station and a fold from you. I don't hink I find a fold here.

[larrondo]

Well, like I said, the calling station gave off a very clear tell that he was folding. I keep wondering-- is top two a through ticket to the river here, if it was heads up? Could you get away from this without a very clear read that you are beat?

[goofball]

You say he is semi tricky? Can't fold. Calling station didn't make his fold tell (as you write it) until after the all in move from villian. Can't fold. I don't htink I find a fold in this spot.

[larrondo]

Well, here's the deal: I was the villain and I had KQ off for the nuts on the flop. My cards were pretty easy to play, but his were more tricky. He (the 'hero') called and hit a ten on the river to boat up.

What if I had made a huge overbet of the pot? What circumstances make folding top two correct?

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, here's the deal: I was the villain and I had KQ off for the nuts on the flop. My cards were pretty easy to play, but his were more tricky. He (the 'hero') called and hit a ten on the river to boat up.

What if I had made a huge overbet of the pot? What circumstances make folding top two correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you so concerned about making folding correct? You have the nuts and you want a four-outer to fold? Boats happen, no big deal. My main concern would be how much I could get the other guy to call, not how much it would take to make him fold.

SpaceAce

[larrondo]

No, I wasn't interested in making him fold and I wasn't upset at his boat. I was interested in top two pair on a scary board. When would it be correct to lay it down? (I'm thinking that with our stacks this low, it would seldom happen.)