PP 2/4 QQ hand. Boring hand but I think I misplayed the river

gr8vertical · #1 11-12-2005, 10:52 PM

Sorry for this hand. It seems like it should be textbook...

Do I three-bet this river?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (7 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, Button calls, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls, Button calls.

River: (16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Button calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB

sweetjazz · #2 11-12-2005, 11:09 PM

It looks almost certain that you have button beat. I doubt MP1 has a straight or flush, because that is not consistent with his turn raise. His turn raise suggests he has an A and his river raise suggests the 7 helped his hand. So it really looks like he has A7. Of course, he could just be playing another hand strangely, but I think you are good here often to 3-bet, especially since you're getting 2-to-1 on the bet with the button helplessly calling along.

Some other side remarks:
* This is a good hand to post. It's hard to read hands at the table (at least initially it was for me...and it still is even though I have improved substantially through practice). Of course, this side remark will be ironic when you reveal that MP1 had something that doesn't resemble A7 at all. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

* Avoid getting results-oriented in this situation (not implying that you are here...just a general remark for everyone studying this hand). When you 3-bet and collect two extra bets here, you feel like a genius. When you 3-bet, MP1 caps and you make a crying call only to see JT or something else equally painful, you feel stupid for spewing two extra bets. You are relying on imperfect information, and the goal is to estimate the EV of each of your options as best as you can. No matter how good you are, you are going to be wrong in these kind of decisions a non-trivial amount of the time. The best players are aware of that and shake it off when it happens -- "I thought my decision was optimal, maybe I'll review this hand history after my session is over" would be a typical thought in their mind. (Or so am I told. I don't have any experience with what good players think. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

gr8vertical · #3 11-13-2005, 01:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It looks almost certain that you have button beat. I doubt MP1 has a straight or flush, because that is not consistent with his turn raise. His turn raise suggests he has an A and his river raise suggests the 7 helped his hand. So it really looks like he has A7. Of course, he could just be playing another hand strangely, but I think you are good here often to 3-bet, especially since you're getting 2-to-1 on the bet with the button helplessly calling along.

Some other side remarks:
* This is a good hand to post. It's hard to read hands at the table (at least initially it was for me...and it still is even though I have improved substantially through practice). Of course, this side remark will be ironic when you reveal that MP1 had something that doesn't resemble A7 at all. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

* Avoid getting results-oriented in this situation (not implying that you are here...just a general remark for everyone studying this hand). When you 3-bet and collect two extra bets here, you feel like a genius. When you 3-bet, MP1 caps and you make a crying call only to see JT or something else equally painful, you feel stupid for spewing two extra bets. You are relying on imperfect information, and the goal is to estimate the EV of each of your options as best as you can. No matter how good you are, you are going to be wrong in these kind of decisions a non-trivial amount of the time. The best players are aware of that and shake it off when it happens -- "I thought my decision was optimal, maybe I'll review this hand history after my session is over" would be a typical thought in their mind. (Or so am I told. I don't have any experience with what good players think. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, thanks for that great analysis. That's exactly what I was thinking on the river... 3 bet it and look good if they call it down and if it gets capped then I'm going to be mad at myself for 3-betting it.

gr8vertical · #4 11-13-2005, 03:06 PM

As expected didn't get much input. That's cool.

Anyways, on to the results

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qs Qc (three of a kind, queens).
MP1 has Ah 7c (two pair, aces and sevens).
Button has 9d Ad (two pair, aces and nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 22 BB.

winky51 · #5 11-13-2005, 04:17 PM

At 2/4 Id 3 bet it. His turn raise smells of 2 pair. With the str8 he would CAP.

Now in 2/4 people are not too bright thinking 2 pair is gold. I have seen many times people missing the nuts on the board. Basically they are thinking of their hands and not yours. 3 bet this one and call the CAP.