Seeing a card

[joshdvm]

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No, it doesn't change from the issue of being a rule to being an issue of etiquette just because you present a situation where no one else is aware that the rule is being broken. If you commit a crime in private it is still a crime, not just a breach of protocal.

The question of whether one acts honestly when they can get away with acting dishonestly is a matter of personal integrity. Of course your decision there is probably indicative of the other types of decisions you make in your life, and eventually people will catch on and treat you accordingly.

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You miss my point. I am not saying one isn’t obligated to be honest just because one can get away with it. I am bringing up this dilemma because I have found myself in the original poster’s situation and, while I, in good faith, voluntarily disclosed this information, I felt that others were not as forthright with me when the roles were reversed.

The honest player is doubly punished. First, because unscrupulous others will have an unfair advantage over him; second, because the honest player cannot himself engage in the unfair behavior as retaliation.

So, without being lectured again about the generalities of pursuing honesty in one’s life,

A) How do you specifically propose to enforce a rule which can never be enforced except by virtue of others’ honor?

B) How can something be a “Rule” in the first place if it can never be enforced, and there are barely any consequences for anyone violating it?

Answer: Yes, I agree, it should still be a “rule,” the enforcement of which, however, is ultimately voluntary, and entirely dependent on the mutual agreement of the players involved to honor. But it can never be enforced and, back to my original point, that is the essence of etiquette—a code of acceptable behavior everyone is admonished to follow because it is in the best interest of the game

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


No, it doesn't change from the issue of being a rule to being an issue of etiquette just because you present a situation where no one else is aware that the rule is being broken. If you commit a crime in private it is still a crime, not just a breach of protocal.

The question of whether one acts honestly when they can get away with acting dishonestly is a matter of personal integrity. Of course your decision there is probably indicative of the other types of decisions you make in your life, and eventually people will catch on and treat you accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

You miss my point. I am not saying one isn’t obligated to be honest just because one can get away with it. I am bringing up this dilemma because I have found myself in the original poster’s situation and, while I, in good faith, voluntarily disclosed this information, I felt that others were not as forthright with me when the roles were reversed.

The honest player is doubly punished. First, because unscrupulous others will have an unfair advantage over him; second, because the honest player cannot himself engage in the unfair behavior as retaliation.

So, without being lectured again about the generalities of pursuing honesty in one’s life,

A) How do you specifically propose to enforce a rule which can never be enforced except by virtue of others’ honor?

B) How can something be a “Rule” in the first place if it can never be enforced, and there are barely any consequences for anyone violating it?

Answer: Yes, I agree, it should still be a “rule,” the enforcement of which, however, is ultimately voluntary, and entirely dependent on the mutual agreement of the players involved to honor. But it can never be enforced and, back to my original point, that is the essence of etiquette—a code of acceptable behavior everyone is admonished to follow because it is in the best interest of the game

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To begin with, the rule that a card which is exposed will be shown to all the players and replaced (except when a misdeal results) is an enforceable rule and it is enforced everyday.

You present the issue of that it may occur that only one player becomes aware of the fact that the card is exposed and then ask the question "How do you specifically propose to enforce a rule which can never be enforced except by virtue of others’ honor?" As noted before the rule can and is enforced because the simple fact is that most times that a card is exposed it is not only exposed to one player. Obviously by definition if only one person know sthat the card has been exposed no other person knows that the card has been exposed and therefore no one else can "enforce" the rule. SO WHAT?

Then you ask

B) How can something be a “Rule” in the first place if it can never be enforced, and there are barely any consequences for anyone violating it?

So a guy robs a bank and gets away without getting caught, therefore it can't be a rule taht you are not allowed to rob banks. If I mark the deck in a way that only I can detect is that not a breach of the rules of poker. I can't get caught because only I can detect the markings. Perhaps its just poor ettiquette.

The fact that you may get away with cheating doesn't change the fact that it is cheating.

You can insist that its just a matter of ettiquette all you want, but the bottom line is that it is a rule of poker. If you want to argue etiquette issues here is one for you: Is it poor ettiquette to chew with your mouth open when you are dining alone?

Thoughts? You cheated. You knowingly saw one of his cards, and kept playing as if nothing happened. Thats nothing more than cheating imo.

[Buccaneer]

Your dealer is flashing cards. He will flash again and again. Your cards may be the one flashed next time. Would you not want the other players to allert you to the sloppy deal?

Reporting this IMO gives you advantages over taking that pot. One is that winning the pot is not assured just because you saw a flash. Two by alerting the table you take the A out of play and your hand becomes stronger. Three you have confirmed you read on this player so his act is now showing you both his cards in the future. Four he may go on tilt (how would you like giving up an ace). Fifth your table image is now of an honest player that would never take advantage of the other players.