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#11
11-12-2005, 03:08 PM
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Re: How bad was this cold call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The only time I will make it is if the table is very agro post-flop with lots of raising on every street [/ QUOTE ] What? Why? I'm thinking the exact opposite [/ QUOTE ] Implied odds maybe? If the table is passive or weak/tight, we might not make up enough post-flop. I really don't mind either way. If there's one aggressive player and a bunch of callers, we can pump strong draws and drag some huge pots when we hit. If it's passive, we get more free cards. Seems cool either way. [/ QUOTE ] You're not going to be able to pump this draw given our position relative to the raiser. We'll have only one player trapped that'll be calling a possible 3-bet raise(which he might not want to do) and we'll probably fold out UTG. So it could only be us, the super-loose/passive BB and the preflop raiser seeing the turn. I don't want to pump here if that's the case... The free card is certainly a possibility, but I don't know enough about the preflop raiser to count on that occuring. A lot of ifs need to occur for this draw to work out...and that's only if we do get our draw to begin with, and then it's still a draw. It's not like a set which is made when the flop comes. I either want to limp with this hand preflop on the button, or be the one raising it preflop so I can see a free turn card. Not coldcalling... 
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#12
11-12-2005, 03:23 PM
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Re: How bad was this cold call
Lau,
We don't know exactly how the action went, but it certainly looks like BB and UTG will both be in with us. If we have a strong draw, we can bet into the PFR and call his raise. It may be marginal, but that's enough of a pump for me. We then have options on the turn. I think we're seeing the turn at least 3-handed a majority of the time here regardless of the actions of the PFR. Either way it's a marginal play. I'm fine with it. And I CC T9s here as well. Of course, when I looked through my 10k hands at 1/2 6-max, I've had 1 opportunity like this. (Flopped the nut straight, too. Yay for results-oriented thinking! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])
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#13
11-12-2005, 03:26 PM
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Re: How bad was this cold call
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, when I looked through my 10k hands at 1/2 6-max, I've had 1 opportunity like this. (Flopped the nut straight, too. Yay for results-oriented thinking! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]) [/ QUOTE ] You luckbox. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#14
11-12-2005, 03:43 PM
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Re: How bad was this cold call
[ QUOTE ]
Lau, We don't know exactly how the action went, but it certainly looks like BB and UTG will both be in with us. If we have a strong draw, we can bet into the PFR and call his raise. It may be marginal, but that's enough of a pump for me. We then have options on the turn. I think we're seeing the turn at least 3-handed a majority of the time here regardless of the actions of the PFR. Either way it's a marginal play. I'm fine with it. And I CC T9s here as well. Of course, when I looked through my 10k hands at 1/2 6-max, I've had 1 opportunity like this. (Flopped the nut straight, too. Yay for results-oriented thinking! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]) [/ QUOTE ] We can't bet into a PFR if we're on the button... And if we're seeing the turn 3-handed(if we see the turn at all) we are wasting money "pumping" because we wont have the equity to do so. So we'll be calling down until we hit our flush or straight. I guess calling here is a matter of personal preference and dependant on game conditions. But I see 6-max as more aggressive, and hands like JTs don't really care for them. Maybe this game has the right set of conditions to do it, but I think you're saving money here in the long run by folding this down for 2 bets preflop. I'll stick to my set farming for speculative hands in these spots [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#15
11-12-2005, 03:56 PM
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Re: How bad was this cold call
Ah yes. Don't know why I missed that.
Regardless, if we have a flush draw, it's still +EV to see the turn 3-handed - especially in position. If we just call the flop with a strong draw, that's also a +EV decision. I don't blame anyone for dropping it, though. It's one of those very close decisions. A call means you have to play well postflop.
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#16
11-12-2005, 04:23 PM
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Re: How bad was this cold call
[ QUOTE ]
A call means you have to play well postflop. [/ QUOTE ] that sums it up nicely.
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#17
11-12-2005, 04:28 PM
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Re: How bad was this cold call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A call means you have to play well postflop. [/ QUOTE ] that sums it up nicely. [/ QUOTE ] Sums what up nicely? It isn't exactly hard to play a drawing hand on the button...the question is whether or not the preflop call is "good" or "bad", worth playing postflop at all. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, that's why we have the discussion on it. I wasn't gonna say anything because I don't want to sound like a troll, but that statement is pretty [censored] arrogant.
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#19
11-12-2005, 07:13 PM
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Re: How bad was this cold call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A call means you have to play well postflop. [/ QUOTE ] that sums it up nicely. [/ QUOTE ] Sums what up nicely? It isn't exactly hard to play a drawing hand on the button...the question is whether or not the preflop call is "good" or "bad", worth playing postflop at all. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, that's why we have the discussion on it. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that you (Lau) couldn't play this. I also didn't mean to say that I play well enough postflop to make this +EV. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I think it's a close decision, and I think the balance is how well you play after the flop in comparison to your opponents, and the particular opponents you're playing against. I think a fold is the right decision for someone who hasn't played much 6-max or short-handed in general. (I almost wrote that a fold is +EV, but a fold is always 0 EV!)
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