99

#1 11-10-2005, 11:44 PM

Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

PreFlop
CO posts BB
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 Calls, LP1 Calls, CO checks, Button folds
SB folds, Hero RAISES, MP3 Calls, LP1 Calls, CO Calls

(4 players) FLOP: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 4.25 BB )
Hero checks, MP3 checks, LP1 BETS, CO Calls
Hero Calls, MP3 Calls

(4 players) TURN: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 6.25 BB )
Hero checks, MP3 checks, LP1 BETS, CO Calls
[b][i]Hero ...

MrWookie47 · #2 11-10-2005, 11:48 PM

Just bet the flop.

PokerSparky · #3 11-10-2005, 11:49 PM

Bet out on the flop. If you get raised you can reevaluate.

aargh57 · #4 11-11-2005, 12:05 AM

I have a question about the pf raise. I know the charts all say to do it but what do we accomplish by raising in these situations. With middle pairs like this you'd like to either thin the field or see the flop cheaply with a lot of players. I remember reading (I think in HPFAP) where it says that with JJ you'd like to play with 1 or 2 opponents or a bunch of them. The worst case scenario being up against 3 or 4 opponents. Now I know the answer is probably because we've likely got the best hand here but we're still playing a middle pair OOP against 3 opponents that's going to flop at least one overcard a majority of the time. Not criticizing the OP just really wondering why this is the "book" play here.

Anyway,

On the flop, I think I would probably say that I'd have to check/fold here. There 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]'s out there and a K so we're not very likely to make everyone fold right there even if we're ahead and we could easily be behind. I think check/calling is the worst option in this situation. You're only getting 6:1 and you've got 1 better and a someone else who likes their hand enough to call.

On the turn I think it's a very easy check/fold.

aargh57 · #5 11-11-2005, 12:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damnit, I went from being to LAGy to being too weak in a week. I kind of got flamed for making a similar play against a field of 5 players with a 77 hand. Does one less player make that much of a difference in these situations.

#6 11-11-2005, 03:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question about the pf raise. I know the charts all say to do it but what do we accomplish by raising in these situations. With middle pairs like this you'd like to either thin the field or see the flop cheaply with a lot of players. I remember reading (I think in HPFAP) where it says that with JJ you'd like to play with 1 or 2 opponents or a bunch of them. The worst case scenario being up against 3 or 4 opponents. Now I know the answer is probably because we've likely got the best hand here but we're still playing a middle pair OOP against 3 opponents that's going to flop at least one overcard a majority of the time. Not criticizing the OP just really wondering why this is the "book" play here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe a raise here is for value/equity. As no one showed any strength pf, we probably have the best hand going into the flop more often than not. (Sure, some people don't like to raise TT so we could be behind.)

I'm not sure what the numbers are, but I think that there's a percentage of time that you're pair will be an overpair on the flop...although with 99, it's much less likely than, say, QQ or JJ.

If an all broadway flop occurs, we're probably toast against against 3 opponents. An easy muck at that point.

I think it gets tough to play when there's an overcard on the flop. If a T or J high flop happens, it can be difficult to access whether or not you should dump and on which street.

#7 11-11-2005, 03:57 AM

*grunch*

First of all: what converter do you use? I like the colors quite a lot. It's the only one that does not include a link, though.

EDIT: overlooked the CO. So it's 20%. Still not enough.
Preflop: check. Medium Pairs want to play either HU or with a lot of callers to pay you off if you hit a set. The latter only happens about 8% of the time, I think. You are paying 25% preflop here. So I think this raise has no value.

EDIT: Overlooked CO. Against 3 Opponents leading out is marginal. I wouldn't do it.
Flop: Fold. Although the pot is big (using the definition of SSHE), you are 10:1 for 2 outs, max 4 if you are up against flush draws. 2 of those 4 outs could give TP a better FH.
I think against 2 opponents (Reads? Overplayers?) You can lead the flop here for some fold-equity, though. If they both call you, reevaluate on the turn. Check/Call is definitly -EV here.

Turn: Fold it! Even if a 3 comes, any K or J has you covered. So you really need another 9 to improve here. There are 2 Overcards to your pair here, 2 flush-draws possible and someone is betting into you. Unless that someone is very aggressive and would bet an A here, you are probably facing TP or a flush-draw already. If he is only on a flush draw, you still have only 4 outs to improve. The pot is not large enough. So check/call isn't a good choice.

ajm36 · #8 11-11-2005, 05:19 AM

Bet or C/R the flop. If you C/R the flop, lead the turn--if everyone doesn't fold, don't put another dime into this hand. I lean toward betting the flop--you are the PF raiser AND you have a made pair--this flop may have missed everyone, and lead the turn. If you don't fold everyone, check/fold the river. With your line, you need to fold the flop bet--if you made it to the turn, fold.

astrodon · #9 11-11-2005, 08:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Does one less player make that much of a difference in these situations

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you're certain your preflop raise chased away a K3s - but then the CO may just have that very hand! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

#10 11-11-2005, 08:07 AM

Bet the flop. If you get HU on the turn bet that too. I just hate to check fold the river but I think you have to.