School and community service

[Token]

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I never once stated it was ok to REQUIRE service out of anyone. I did state that VOLUNTARY service is perfectly acceptable, and that I don't have a problem with schools ENCOURAGING but not REQUIRING service.

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Do you have a problem with schools REQUIRING math?

[Darryl_P]

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Offspring aren't the property of their parents. They are the charge of their parents who must answer to the state.

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If we take the current state as a given, then there is really no choice but to agree with you, because if I resist the state too much my ass will end up in prison eventually.

But I'm curious what you think about our closest mammal relatives, the chimpanzees. They don't need any organized force to tell them how to raise their young and they seem to be doing a decent job. We have much bigger brains and yet you're saying we need help? Do you not see something ironic or paradoxical here?

Or are you just merely saying that the majority want it that way (ie. they want the state in place as it is) and since they're powerful enough to resist opposition, the order of things is that they get what they want?

[HDPM]

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Man... you are a real glass half empty kind of guy aren't you?

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Well, maybe it is because I know that most people , and certainly most government school employees are brain half empty kind of guys. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[TomCollins]

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I never once stated it was ok to REQUIRE service out of anyone. I did state that VOLUNTARY service is perfectly acceptable, and that I don't have a problem with schools ENCOURAGING but not REQUIRING service.

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Do you have a problem with schools REQUIRING math?

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I don't even see how this relates. I do have a problem with a government monopoly of schools.

[Token]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I never once stated it was ok to REQUIRE service out of anyone. I did state that VOLUNTARY service is perfectly acceptable, and that I don't have a problem with schools ENCOURAGING but not REQUIRING service.

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Do you have a problem with schools REQUIRING math?

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I don't even see how this relates. I do have a problem with a government monopoly of schools.

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Bear with me.

[jt1]

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But I'm curious what you think about our closest mammal relatives, the chimpanzees. They don't need any organized force to tell them how to raise their young and they seem to be doing a decent job. We have much bigger brains and yet you're saying we need help? Do you not see something ironic or paradoxical here?


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I don't agree. Chimp society is about a 100'th or even a million'th less complicated than ours. They eat ants and fruit. Furthermore, chimps don't have to worry about crime or invasion. We do.

Let's give the analogy a bit more beef. Lat's say there are several large groups of chimps in central Africa who are being slowly exterminated by poaching, war, farming and mining. Now these chimps were suddenly enowed with the smarts to organize ambushes and develop a chain of command. Furthermore, they developed a school to train their fellow chimps. For their own self protection, do you not think that the majority of chimps would have a right to force the minorty who didn't want to organize or fight or train to do so? In my opinion, it's a matter of self defense.

Now that is an extreme example, because, America is not at a point where our very survival as free people is at state. However, that is the whole point of the state: to organize a coherent defense against enemies. Where the state has no such right, it will soon be taken over by a state that does.

But let's, imagine, that America abandons its public education system. 100 years later, American business's have largely relocated to Europe, India and Latin America. Intelligent Americans have no choice but to follow them, and the majority of Americans and American business's still residing in America make up a revenue stream of about a third of what we have now. The consequences is that Canada now has 57 provinces. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Feel free to flame away. That was pretty ridiculous. But I did try to be logical so make your criticisms logical, please.

[DougShrapnel]

If you don't like it, tell the kids to get a GED. Problem solved. .

[Darryl_P]

Interesting take. I'm not advocating anarcho-capitalism but I do find it interesting that education has to be mandatory or else large numbers of people (maybe even the majority!?) wouldn't subject their kids to it. There are few examples which so starkly illustrate the difference between what people say they value and what they really value when the chips are down.

I agree with your comments about the chimps. It looks like their inability to form a state and initiate collective actions against humans is probably going to drive them to extinction. Of course if humans didn't have states, then maybe the chimps' plight wouldn't be so bad, but then again our job is to look after ourselves and not the chimps.

I'm not sure I agree that America's business and defense infrastructure would fall apart, though, if only education were taken out of the equation.

One reason is that education would likely get less expensive than current private education because of the increased demand and economies of scale.

Of course a tougher stance would need to be taken against crime. Punishments would have to be handed out more swiftly and in a less costly way.

Maybe there would even be an uprising by those who stay uneducated and they could eventually be granted a separate state. America would then be left with a bit less territory, but would have a population which values education more than it does now. That could even make it leaner and meaner than it is today!?

Anyway, the purpose of my original question was more to find out your thoughts rather than start a debate (which would likely be of the typical never-ending type). My vision of utopia is pretty extreme and few would agree with it, but IMO these are enjoyable mental masturbation exercises in any case.