($22) How bad was this laydown?

[RobertC]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero (t745)
Button (t1560)
SB (t1475)
BB (t620)
UTG (t955)
UTG+1 (t595)
MP1 (t1320)
MP2 (t730)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
[color=#666666]2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t30, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, Hero calls t30, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t120) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]SB bets t100</font>, BB folds, MP1 calls t100, Hero calls t100.

Turn: (t420) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](3 players)</font>
SB checks, MP1 checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets t100</font>, SB folds, [color=#CC3333]MP1 raises to t600</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1120

One of the biggest weaknesses in my game is that I concentrate too much on my own cards without thinking about the hand my opponent might have. Consequently I rarely fold a strong hand even when the betting suggests I'm beaten. Never before in my life have I folded a full house in Hold'em.

My thinking after the raise on the turn was that MP1 wouldn't have called the flop without some kind of hand. So he held a 7, ace, or pocket pair. I could see him calling the turn with a 7 or pocket pair, but not raising with them. So I concluded he must have an ace and I folded.

Of course now I think that if he had an ace why would he raise me all-in. He could make a minimum raise and I might bite. Or I might even reraise thinking the mini-raise was a bluff. I also think now that he might've gone all-in with a 7. This is what I call a panic all-in. Where the player has the nuts at one point, slowplays, no longer has the nuts, and then goes all-in hoping to take down the pot that was supposed to his in the first place.

Should I have checked on the turn? Will a hand that can't beat me call a turn bet? Perhaps better to check the turn and maybe induce a bet or a call from a weaker hand on the river. What do you think? Thanks.

[Geordie Ramone]

The laydown seems fair enough, but I would definitly be pushing the flop

[pineapple888]

This is kind of a tough one because you played the hand so weakly that villain could have just about anything.

With your stack size, just push the flop and hope for the best.

[splashpot]

I probably would have folded preflop. Party's 800 chip stacks don't leave much room for drawing hands. I would have raised the flop because I think any ace will call, but I suppose slow playing it is ok considering there is no flush draw. When that ace hits on the turn, I'm check/folding the rest of the hand.

[bluef0x]

I definately fold this pre-flop. Maybe you can justify a limp if nearly the whole table is limping, but 87s for 30 chips is a waste. Even if the flop is a decent straight/flush draw- you are going to end up throwing away a lot of chips chasing. I've really tightened up in my $11/$22 SnG's, I don't play suited connectors unless I'm SB and need to complete and I play less pocket pairs than I used to. It has definately improved my results, as you get into less trouble spots like this... I raise a lot on the flop, hoping for a reraise so I can go all-in. The turn I check/fold and then cry.

[Freudian]

I think you have to push the flop. It is a great flop with. The ace on the flop will make people call you as a dog quite often.

Since you didn't, I'd fold this turn.

[Hornacek]

For everyone pushing this flop, please explain.

He has position on them, and no straight or flush draws whatsoever. Are your guys' pushes results-oriented because the 2-outer hit on the turn? I'm calling the same way on the flop, and folding the turn. If anything else hits the turn, I'm going to raise the turn, or bet 1/3 to 1/2 the pot if its checked to me.

i agree, you don't push flop. ludicrous. results oriented thinking.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
For everyone pushing this flop, please explain.

He has position on them, and no straight or flush draws whatsoever. Are your guys' pushes results-oriented because the 2-outer hit on the turn? I'm calling the same way on the flop, and folding the turn. If anything else hits the turn, I'm going to raise the turn, or bet 1/3 to 1/2 the pot if its checked to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause you only have 700 behind a 325 pot, and if you push at the 22s, you could very well get worse hands to call.

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For everyone pushing this flop, please explain.

He has position on them, and no straight or flush draws whatsoever. Are your guys' pushes results-oriented because the 2-outer hit on the turn? I'm calling the same way on the flop, and folding the turn. If anything else hits the turn, I'm going to raise the turn, or bet 1/3 to 1/2 the pot if its checked to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause you only have 700 behind a 325 pot, and if you push at the 22s, you could very well get worse hands to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you're afraid of the 2-outer hitting, so you want to try to lock into the t325 pot NOW? Especially with position? Wow.

I think you are overestimating the donkishness of the players on PP. Maybe a year and a half ago, but I think you can wait to raise the turn now. The players are still horrible, but I think you'd be better off waiting. There are cases where an ace will lead on the turn again, but will fold to reraise all in on the flop.