qq on the turn with two ks on board. what would you do?

[badbill7]

just sat down at table and this pops up. I bet flop here because no one showed aggression preflop. Now do you automatically bet turn here or check and see what action occurs. Is this a positve ev decision.



Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>

[crazygoose]

hells yea. smaller PPs could be calling you down along iwth a ton of other garbage. turn is an autobet, you can fold to a raise if the player is passive.
sry call a raise because of the backdoor second nut flush.

[Nick C]

I would probably assume (maybe incorrectly) that my 1/2 opponents were loose callers, so I think I'd bet again, hoping the bet was for value.

I certainly wouldn't be shocked if I got raised, though.

If you're ahead, it's entirely possible that your opponents each have just 1-3 outs, so that's a reason to think about checking, especially if (1) you think one of your opponents will occasionally semibluff raise with a hand like 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or the naked A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] but will usually (when they raise) have trips or a flush instead, and/or (2) one of your opponents may fire with a worse hand like 88 that's drawing very badly against you when you check, and that opponent will not call a turn bet with a hand that's way behind you.

My guess is that 1/2 opponents won't fulfill either of these conditions very well. (I don't know. When you actually have AK in this spot, how often do you get raised on the turn by a worse hand? The evidence you get from the answer isn't perfect, since we're dealing with memory and also when you have trips it decreases the number of ways your opponents could have a worse king, but it's something to think about.)

So what I'd probably do is bet and then call the not-exactly-surprising raise that followed, planning to fold the river unimproved. And then when the river didn't improve me, I'd probably switch plans and check-call.

[badbill7]

thks nick. imput was what i was lookin for .oh and about that last two lines. were you joking i can never tell.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
thks nick. imput was what i was lookin for .oh and about that last two lines. were you joking i can never tell.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would sometimes call a turn raise and then call again unimproved on the river, while at the same time suspecting I really shouldn't be calling the river.

A couple of problems are these: If UTG+1 raises, he's raising two players. If UTG+1 folds and MP3 raises, well, that's a little more suspicious, but MP3 did like his hand enough to overcall with it on the flop. (That is what I'd expect someone with a pocket pair to do, though.)

Anyway, I don't really know anymore how 1/2 unknowns play, but my guess is that, once you get raised on the turn, you're not good often enough unimproved on the river to call again.

If you do call, you will see a worse pocket pair occasionally, though.

Unknowns who imitate donk-standard slowplays can create difficulties.