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#22
10-23-2005, 01:00 PM
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Re: i fastplay acesup
I like to keep these situations as simple as possible; one general tendency i think everyone should account for is how aggresive this player is.
If he's passive, wait to raise the turn, his range for 3betting flop hands will go down significantly. If he's aggresive and will tend to bet-3bet hands on the flop then clearly raising the flop is better. I think these decisions are in bulk dependent on an opponet's aggresion, and at my tables i tend to play against more passive players, which is why the "wait till the turn" line is the standard play. Most players here will donkbet the flop with a draw or a weak made hand though, so i will tend to wait till the turn to raise. 
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#24
10-23-2005, 02:46 PM
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Re: i fastplay acesup
[ QUOTE ]
If he calls down its .5BB difference in the lines. [/ QUOTE ] sure is. [ QUOTE ] If he folds, he's probably also folding to a turn raise. [/ QUOTE ] i don't really see the point you're trying to make here. if he folds the flop we lose 1BB from a likely turn bet.
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#25
11-06-2005, 07:11 PM
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Re: i fastplay acesup
My point was made in my first post in this thread. It has some stuff I don't think was mentioned in this thread and nobody responded to it...
1) When he's got a big hand I think you'll make a lot more. 2) Most of the time it's only a .5BB difference if he calls down. 3) If he folds at some point, popping the turn only makes one BB more, assuming he bets the Turn every time he bets the flop, which he won't. So the gain in these instances is < 1BB.
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#26
11-06-2005, 08:15 PM
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Re: i fastplay acesup
[ QUOTE ]
My point was made in my first post in this thread. It has some stuff I don't think was mentioned in this thread and nobody responded to it... 1) When he's got a big hand I think you'll make a lot more. 2) Most of the time it's only a .5BB difference if he calls down. 3) If he folds at some point, popping the turn only makes one BB more , assuming he bets the Turn every time he bets the flop, which he won't. So the gain in these instances is < 1BB. [/ QUOTE ] One BB more is a lot. Something TStone did not mention however, is that the BB 3 bet him, not just called and donked flop. For this reason, I think a turn continuation bet is likely, and thus waiting until the turn is clearly better than raising the flop. One thing no one has mentioned is waiting until the river. The chance that he has a big hand HU is very low. I think most would agree that the most likely hand is a big ace that will pay off your turn raise and river bet. What if he has less than an ace though?--this is just as likely, and will result in him shutting down as happened here. Waht about waiting until the river to raise? I guess you lose one where he would have paid off a turn raise and river bet but by you waiting he check calls the river. But then again, you gain one when he calls the river raise (more likely) when he woudl have folded to the turn raise. Sklansky talks about this in HFAP on pg. 147.
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#27
11-06-2005, 08:34 PM
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Re: i fastplay acesup
BB is 30/7/1.2
Players like this don't usually three bet the flop (as a default read) with Ax- they often bet then go into showdown mode with a weak ace. The baord is so dry, A4 and 49 are your only two pair options that will three bet you. The thing is though with a 7pfr he might be the type to smooth call ATo + preflop and then bet/three bet the flop with them, if hes this type then its not such a bad play, but if he would normally three bet AK + AQ preflop i start to lean back toward caling the flop to pop the turn. A final consideration is weather he will try the ol' check call the turn, donk the river play after this with a weak ace. Then you are in for some extra ca$h if he's this type. I guess its just player dependant like others have said.
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#30
11-06-2005, 08:44 PM
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Re: i fastplay acesup
Depends...I like it, but I also like waiting for the turn. But I think this turn gets checked to u pretty often (in which he could check/call or check/fold)...depends on the player (Ive gone to far to go back and look at the stats).
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