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  #11  
Old 10-23-2003, 04:30 PM
CORed CORed is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 273
Default Overcards

I think you are calling on the flop with some pretty marginal hands. In particular, overcards suck in multiway pots. Even though it appears you are getting odds to call, your pair will frequently be beaten when you hit it. Overcards play best as a semi-bluff heads up or three-way, with a flop with little straight or flush potential. You won't see this very often on Party .50/1.00. Also, I wouldn't put much value on one card backdoor flushes, unless your one flush card is an ace. Your flush will often be beaten when you hit it, and even if it's good, you won't get much action on a 4 flush board. Suited overcards with one of your suit on the board are more valuable. If you play agressively on the flop, your opponents often won't put you on the flush if you hit, and you're much less likely to be beaten by a bigger flush.

Also, when bet into on the flop, think 1.Should I fold? 2.Should I raise? 3. Should I call? Your opponent is representing strength. What does he have? Don't automatically put him on a hand you can beat or draw out on, especially if he raised preflop. If your hand isn't good enough to raise, don't call unless you have a pretty good draw. (open end straight, 4 flush, gutshot + overcards on a rainbow flop, gutshot + pair on rainbow flop, 2nd pair Ace Kicker, for example). Devalue straight draws if the flop is 2-suited or you are drawing to the idiot (small) end. If you are last to act, raise your better draws to get a free turn card. Marginal draws add variance with little value. It is better to fold some barely positive value draws than to play a lot of zero to slightly negative value draws.
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  #12  
Old 10-23-2003, 05:12 PM
squiffy squiffy is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 816
Default Re: Help needed, I\'m getting killed.

I have been playing Party .50-$1 for about 3-4 months and have never been down 100BB as far as I can remember. I think that is a pretty huge swing. I consider myself a pretty weak-tight player, but am improving. And I started out about break even and now am microprofitable.

I obviously agree with the other advice given here, but want to emphasize that you must be chasing too much or playing too much with very marginal hands. I think being down 100BB at Party .50-$1 is absolutely horrible and you need to post many many more hands.

Also, in general, when you review hands, here, what patterns to do you notice. That is. How does your gut instinct on how to play the hand differ from the majority consensus among the posters????

Post more hands. Especially losing hands.
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  #13  
Old 10-24-2003, 04:20 PM
Redleg7 Redleg7 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 37
Default Re: Help needed, I\'m getting killed.

As many have pointed out you may want to tighten up preflop. Remember if you build a weak hand you have to play a weak hand. Playing your way out of a jam comes with experience, the problem is compounded even more in a low limit party game because those players will chase you down at the most inopportune time (usually with you holding AA, on a raggedy board, and them holding two pair usually 32o) and win.

I would not place a lot of stock in backdoor draws. As you have found out, a backdoor draw is a fast moving target that is hard to hit.

Overcards are sensitive to the number of players and the size of the pot. The more players the less value they hold (at least from my own experience), likewise you may be paying more for your draw than the pot warrants. When drawing to overcards you are only really building a single pair, with the remote chance of making trips or a second pair by the river. At this point you may already be to far behind.

Also remember when playing in a full game there is a good chance that someone is holding a legitimate made hand or a better drawing hand unlike a short handed game where no one may be holding anything.

There are a lot of factors to consider, I personally don't play JUST overcards, or backdoor draws.
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  #14  
Old 10-24-2003, 04:41 PM
Gomez22 Gomez22 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,323
Default Re: Help needed, I\'m getting killed.

Not a pro, but in Hand 2, you turned the nut straight on a flush board, why not raise here?
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  #15  
Old 10-24-2003, 04:52 PM
Gomez22 Gomez22 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,323
Default Re: Help needed, I\'m getting killed.

Sorry..... didn't read about the typo before posting.... anyways, don't feel too bad, I'm going through the same thing at Party, and asking for help here, too. I posted some stats for analysis from PT. You can't play timidly (I haven't got there yet, thank God) and hope to win, and I know that thought can go through your mind. If you have tracker, post some stats, and I'm sure some others can help you.

P.S. Stop playing like the fish you want to beat on the overcards, they're not much good against more than 1-2 players unless you hit the flop big. In multi-player pots, if you miss the flop, muck the hand.... don't think about this, just do it. Also, some of your hands can be pretty marginal, I think in regards to the number of opponents faced. Maybe you might want to only play REAL premium hands for a while..... and not make any marginal calls. If you have any doubts whatsoever, fold.
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