Continuation Bets Getting Picked Off Too Frequently

What stakes are you playing? I find that people making moves on you when rags flop in 25NL and 50NL is rare. 100NL it happens from time to time, and 200NL it's more frequent. This has been my experience in full ring anyways.

I make pot sized bets on the flop, I find they get more respect. I almost always lead the flop when I raise preflop, usually around 90-95%. Sometimes if I have position, I might check behind, but only if I have a draw. A lot of times people will take this for you slowplaying a big hand and they will check to you again.

When it comes to firing 2nd barrels, it all depends on flop texture and if I'm lucky enough to have a read on the villian.

[DoomSlice]

Whenever I feel like people are starting to run me over, I just start check-raising the hell out of everything. That usually gets them back in line.

[Mercman572]

I was just about to post very similar findings at PR. I just reviewed my first 3000 or so hands there and have had similar bad results, here are my findings:

At PR $100 I have been playing tight and raising good hands, other people do this as well.

1. The average-bad player assumes that whenever a tight player raises they have 2 broadway cards both higher than a jack. I've noticed that my C-bets are either minraised or called when the flop comes Jack high or lower, but have over a 90% success rate when the flop comes Q high or better. This hasn't really been good, bc most of the times I actually have missed a J high flop, although I'd play an overpair exactly the same way.

So I was wondering what to do with this, seems like I have 3 options really, and none of them seem that good.

Option 1: Raise SC's and suited one gappers even with limpers from position if you've been playing tightly. You can then successfully C-bet when you miss, and can get played back at when you hit [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]. Problem with this is that it will be expensive when you miss and are called, and often there will be more than one limper to the flop.

2. Don't change your starting range, but only C-bet when you have an overpair. You can expect to be played back at [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]. Problem here is that you stand to fold several best hands when they bet the turn after you check behind with AK for instance [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

3. With a solid read and marginal holding, 3 bet. The minimum raise with a non-scary board is mainly a "I don't believe you" tactic. It's only on a draw heavy board or a Q or higher one that you have to worry in most cases that they have a solid holding and are raising for value.

4th (just came up with it) don't bluff, but semi-bluff so you price yourself into a call anyway. For instance, a 3/4 bet stands to get minraised in a 10board with 2 hearts and you have AKh, so if you bet $7 into a $10 pot he will minraise to 14, putting $31 in the pot and you have only $7 to call with at least one good over and a flush draw. You can then either C/R allin OOP on the turn if stacks warrant it, or come over the top on the turn if he pushes again and you're in position. This requires intense concentration and reads tho

[Mercman572]

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what is your preflop raise percentage though. perhaps your pfr is a bit too high thus decreasing the fold equity of your continuation bet.


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I'm having the same problem and I think its because my stats are too LOW and I'm 16/5.6 now at $100 full. Playing so damn tight they're right to think I've missed most flops that aren't A-high.

[ericlambi]

I'm playing $100 and $200. At $25 and $50, CB bets work a phenomenal amount of the time. At $100 they work, but you start getting resistance. $200 (which my experience is limited), players really are getting out of line a lot. Great when I have cards to hit back, but I hate putting a lot of money in the pot with marginal hands.

[AthenianStranger]

I've played a lot of NL25 and now play NL50 (6-max) I haven't played the higher levels so I don't know about them, but I can say that I have experienced these CB-bet problems at these lower stakes. I raise a little under 15% of my hands, mostly Ax, broadway, and SCs, and often am check/min-raised on ragged flops. My attempts to 3bet have overall been unsuccessful, as 2nd pair hands and draws hands usually call and leave me nowhere. A couple timesI have 3bet a c/m-r on a paired flop (T77) only to run into trips. I have been outplayed in many of these situations but find the C-bet to be largely profitable overall. I don't run into the AK Police (CB retaliation) when I reraise a minraise PF. This seems to be respected even though I often do this with nothing special (usual raising hands) and don't put more than 2 or 3 BB more than a usual raise in the pot PF.

But definitely have the CB problems. People play back when they suspect you've missed, as they should.

[scrapperdog]

If you continuation bet every time you raise pre flop people are gonna play back at you with air or a draw. If a person constantly CB's I am gonna try and pick em off. If they do it say 60% of the time that leaves me playing a guessing game if they hit or not and I dont like to be the one guessing so I am much more likley to fold. I would be interested to know what % of the time you raise pre flop and miss you continuation bet.

[xorbie]

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(a) Raise more hands, so nobody will know if you have hit the flop.

(b) Play your made hands in a way which is not too different from your missed hands until it is too late for your opponents to differentiate.

(c) Put more pressure with your missed hands (fire second barrel in position, check raise turn OOP).

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Don't you think that (a) will lead to more pick off attempts and (c) will lead to chip spewing??

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Yeah I like when people try to pick me off except I have two pair. Or even a straight draw, and I push all in. Think about it this way. If the pot has ~10BB in it and you pot it, that's putting in ~10BB. If villain plays back at you, he has to put in 30-40BB. Who's making the bigger mistake if he ends up folding later?

[scrapperdog]

The problem with this xorbie if you are making a continuation bet you missed the flop or have a questionable holding on the flop. Ace high, pocket pair with overcards on flop, that kind of stuff. If you flop 2 pair it is a value bet or semi bluff if you are open ended. Corrrect me if I am wrong. I have always took continuation bet to mean I have crap but am gonna try and take this pot down anyways cause I raised preflop and might be able to take it.

Semantics.

The point is Xorbie is making a bet on the flop which is a continuation of his preflop raise. Whether he has 2 pair or 8 high, he'll still make this bet with some frequency.

A player should not always make a continuation bet. If this is what the player does, it's a major leak in the player's game that needs addressed.