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  #1  
Old 11-03-2005, 08:26 AM
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Default Flopped nut flush draw and 2nd pair - UI on river

Villain - 19/13/2.3

I guess I'm wondering here if I can fold out hands that beat me by betting here? Or is check calling a better line to induce a bluff?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero ??
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  #2  
Old 11-03-2005, 08:49 AM
Nick Royale Nick Royale is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 270
Default Re: Flopped nut flush draw and 2nd pair - UI on river

I like it, but beware I have a tendency to play my draws overaggressively. However, here's my thoughts:

1. If we re-raise we might fold a hand like QJ in the hands of MP2. This would be no good for us if pfr are holding an overpair/J, but as I see it he could very well be raising AK, gut-shot + overs.

2. If we get called in 2 spots we can safely assume we're behind and drawing. The raise was still probably for value though, since we're likely to hold at least 12 outs on average (~46% equity). The danger is if we're up against a set in which case we'll get capped. Still, since we're holding the T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] all our flush outs are live, but we're facing a great re-draw making this a -EV 3-bet, especially if MP2 folds. But we're not up against a set enough for making this a concern IMO.

3. We don't have a good relative position for a c/r on the turn if we hit anyway, so playing passive on the flop has less value.

4. Calling 2 cold on the flop makes it easy for the opponents to put us on a fd.


EDIT:
Just as CDC said we should be betting this flop in the first place.
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2005, 08:52 AM
Chris Daddy Cool Chris Daddy Cool is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut flush draw and 2nd pair - UI on river

bet.
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  #4  
Old 11-03-2005, 09:00 AM
siccjay siccjay is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut flush draw and 2nd pair - UI on river

Raise Preflop.
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  #5  
Old 11-03-2005, 11:38 AM
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Default Re: Flopped nut flush draw and 2nd pair - UI on river

I am puzzled by this hand. You bet the flop aggressively, presumably to buy a free card on the turn. However, you led out on the turn even when no club fell. From the betting, I would guess that the flop helped your opponent a lot. Check/folding on the river is how I would play
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  #6  
Old 11-03-2005, 05:12 PM
Richard Berg Richard Berg is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut flush draw and 2nd pair - UI on river

Bet/call the flop so you can trap MP1. Bet turn. Bet/fold river.
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  #7  
Old 11-03-2005, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Flopped nut flush draw and 2nd pair - UI on river

[ QUOTE ]
I am puzzled by this hand. You bet the flop aggressively, presumably to buy a free card on the turn. However, you led out on the turn even when no club fell.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's getting a free card close to 0% of the time OOP and I don't think that was his intent at all.
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  #8  
Old 11-03-2005, 05:49 PM
Klak Klak is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut flush draw and 2nd pair - UI on river

[ QUOTE ]
I am puzzled by this hand. You bet the flop aggressively, presumably to buy a free card on the turn. However, you led out on the turn even when no club fell. From the betting, I would guess that the flop helped your opponent a lot. Check/folding on the river is how I would play

[/ QUOTE ]

he was raising for value there since he had such a good chance to improve. he might still be ahead on the river.
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