JJ on 8 high board. money?

[moa]

What's the point of calling 4 raises cold preflop then if we're gonna dump in on the flop unless we hit a set? Seems like JJ is about the same as 22 in a situation like this, and we're sure as hell not calling 4 bets cold with 22 right?

[Yads]

I like a fold PF, CO is capping with AA-JJ, AK. You're out of position. Mind you I don't know if i have the discipline to fold this PF, but I know I should in these situations.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the point of calling 4 raises cold preflop then if we're gonna dump in on the flop unless we hit a set? Seems like JJ is about the same as 22 in a situation like this, and we're sure as hell not calling 4 bets cold with 22 right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean I pretty much agree. Folding here pre-flop is definitely not that bad. The .5 SB discount only really covers the fact that we're out of position, so I find this situation little different than being faced with a similar decision in the button. I think I'd probably have mucked this pre-flop were I playing.

[27offsooot]

PF is marginal. Surprised nobody said this yet. If button doesn't cold-donk, i fold. The flop is really bad. Honestly, if you're going to put 5 bbs in this hand post-flop, u probably should fold PF.

You got CO to v. likely fold a better hand though, hopefully MP is a retard and u won.

EDit - having actually read others replies more fully, people did say PF was marginal.

[ReadyEddie]

Ok i totally agree, the flop cap is spewing.

I do think people are giving my opponents way too much credit.

MP1 and CO are the only ones that im thinking about, UTG and B have shown down [censored] have cold called with [censored] and are essentially dead money, especially PF when their range is so big. So i think the PF is fine, im not gonna fold JJ on this table for a cap.

I'm also liking checking the flop and seeing how it comes back to me.

[TomBrooks]

PREFLOP: Fold. OOP against a capper and a guy that called a cap cold. OK, Button is a LAG preflop, still.....Forgittaboutit.

FLOP as played: Check. Fold if it comes two back to you. Next best: just call and see if MP1 reraises, then call if he does for set outs.

TURN as played: Check/call for your flush and possible set chances.

RIVER as played: Check/say a prayer/call [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]? Folding this, however, even getting 25:1, is probabably +EV.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG and B have shown down [censored] have cold called with [censored] and are essentially dead money So i think the PF is fine

[/ QUOTE ]
Replied above to OP before reading thread. (Grunched) So call pf for set chances. Check/fold the flop when it comes back two without your set.

[lionhorse]

I think you're going to have to dump the jacks preflop. CO's PFR is only 7.75 which definitely puts him on aces kings or queens. The flop cap is also pretty shocking. This is the kind of messy hand that careful preflop folds keep you away from.

Assuming you lead the flop, you're going to have to muck if it's 2 back to you, because you just don't have odds to call. I like the check/fold against 2 some people have been suggesting.