tweedle-dee, tweedle-dum (A4)

ElAnimal · #1 10-31-2005, 11:37 AM

MP1 is 81/5/1.1 after just 21 hands
MP2 is 82/14/0.6 after 77
Both go to showdown about 50% of the time.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (7 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 raises, Hero...

Comments on all streets welcome, but especially the river. Obviously the check was to induce a bluff and to avoid getting raised if another ten was out there. How easy is a fold here? With hero dead to almost any other ace, a ten, a backdoor flush and a slo-played straight it's a fold against virtually anybody, but these two had shown serious brain damage so far.

JinX11 · #2 10-31-2005, 11:43 AM

I think you can safely lay this hand down facing two bets in a 10 bet pot. I do not think you beat both opponents anywhere close to making a call profitable; MP1 may re-raise, further cutting your odds.

toss · #3 10-31-2005, 11:46 AM

Why didn't you bet the river? I'd fold when its two back to me.

MJL · #4 10-31-2005, 12:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you bet the river? I'd fold when its two back to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the check. He's probably beat but if not a check will induce a weaker hand to bet or bluff.

The raise makes it an easy fold.

toss · #5 10-31-2005, 12:08 PM

Why is he probably beat?

MJL · #6 10-31-2005, 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is he probably beat?

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Split with almost any A lose to any T,J9.KJ,AK. It is possible to think of calling a bet because a Q,8,weak A or bluff might bet when you check. The fold comes with the raise. They played passive on the flop and turn. Most with a straight two pair AK etc. would have popped it on the turn. The Ten shows and you have one bettor and one raiser. Unlikely you have both beat.

#7 10-31-2005, 12:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you bet the river? I'd fold when its two back to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd want to bet this river also. Your opponents are very loose and appear to be passive. I think one or both will call behind with worse hands most of the time (unless both were specifically on flush draws) but are passive enough to check behind. Given your check, I think it's an easy fold on the river.

EDIT: Not only do you lose to a T or straight, but you either split or lose to any A. You are rarely winning the whole pot here, so I think you have to fold.

ElAnimal · #8 10-31-2005, 12:55 PM

I agree with you. I don't think I'm likely beat (until the river raise).

But could you explain why you think betting is clearly better than checking? What have these two been calling down with? One possibility is the club flush draw. If that's the case, it never came and my river bet would gain nothing. Same with some kind of straight draw. If they had an ace, we probably split w/ this board, so a bet doesn't do me much good. If they had a ten, I'll get raised, and have to call. If they backdoored the flush, same deal. Since A-high isn't an option, the only hands they call a bet with that I beat are pocket pairs that didn't hit the board, or maybe an 8. I like the check.