Poker discourages me from staying in college

[dogmeat]

Hey Anony,

I quit going to school to play blackjack and poker full time when I was half-way through. I'm 46 and finishing my degree just for the hell of it (I play poker and write for a living now). It would have been a lot easier to just go another two years and finish when I was 21.

College should be a great time in your life - plenty of friends, and lots of fun. Most college students feel there is a lot of pressure and it's too hard, but as you age, you find other things in life can be hard also.

I have a mortgage, two daughters in college, and a four-year old. My wife works and we have a comfortable lifestyle, but which do you think is tougher; college, or raising a family?

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[elmo]

I actually was not enrolled in college for about a week between my 2nd and 3rd year. I had decided to play poker. Then I decided to go to an easy school where I could just breeze, and still have plenty of time to play poker. I believe that was the worst decision I've ever made. School is awful when you are surrounded by people who don't challenge you intellectually, particularly when you have a high opportunity cost. The only thing that keep me here now is the fact that its only 2 more semesters, and my girlfriend is awesome. If I were a freshman or soph again, there is no way I would be doing full time school right now.

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I've actually always very firmly believed college is the key to life. However, for some people, I'm starting to wonder if their 100k+ a year made playing poker isn't a good reason to POSTPONE (not quit) college. Since the poker bubble is likely to only last so long, why not catch it while you can? if you can build up a half mill in a few years of playing poker while it's good and then return to college, what are you sacrificing?

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This is what I've been struggling with. I will be very disappointed if the games get significantly worse after I graduate- that would be a truly wasted opportunity. College will always be here. Additionally, I have low expenses now, and would be able to save money right away. I would rather have my money working for me when I'm in college, instead of building up student loan debt.

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Do you think a 27 year old who is a consistent winner in poker and has a net worth of 1/2 million dollars is likely to go back to school to finish a degree they didn't like in the first place?

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Maybe you wouldn't, but not everyone thinks like you. I can certainly see myself getting a masters degree after playing poker successfully for some number of years.

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You know, I start feeling that way every now and then.....someone upstairs always makes sure the [censored] end of variance smacks me in the face at just that time. What limits do you play? A 100 BB swing at 5/10 will do something for your desire to have a low variance job.

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I dropped 90 bets in 600 hands of 30/60 yesterday, and have lost over 200 3 times. Such is poker. I don't here people complaining about variance when they win 150 BB in a day. Its all about the LR anyways.

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My thought was that it isn't about liking or hating your degree, just about choosing the more advantageous option at the time. Also, you've gotta do something when the fish dry up and I feel like online poker will only last so long. Hence - get degree, get job.

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I wouldn't think you would need a job if you have 1/2 million in capitol with the (assumedly) low cost of living of a 27 year old. Just invest the money and continue to play poker. No matter how much the games dry up I'm sure a good player could make a decent living off of the interest from $500,000 and a modest poker income.

[tongni]

If you are making big money, quit school. I think there comes a point when you realize the amount of money you just made for the month could easily be your yearly salary after 10 years. Just make sure you're actually good at poker first. I still have a year left, and I'm staying because it's all free (scholarships), and I need health insurance. It's not like school is a big time commitment anyways though. I average about 3 hours a week of actual school related stuff including class, taking 12 hours and doing reasonably well.

[Xtian11]

To clarify some things, I'm a 19 year old 2nd year college student. I win consistently in 30/60 (sometimes go higher if tables are good). All of my money goes towards paying for college (tuition, housing, books), then gets locked away in mutual funds (my cousin is a former financial advisor and is currently a VP for a major investment company, so he hooks me up w/ good advice), a small amount goes towards enjoyment/spending/impuse buying and then taxes :P; I still drive a 1990 POS car - my desire for excess spending (esp on a depreciating asset) is close to non-existant. 2 dedicated, full-time, non-tilt, winning months for me at 30/60 >> one year of income @ 40 hrs+/week with a college degree from the university I go to (UT Austin). Plus the theory of the "poker bubble" eventually going bad makes me think about missed out opportunity cost when I don't dedicate myself 100% to poker. If I focus on poker instead of school for the next few years until the "poker bubble" "busts" (if it does), being worth 500k does not sound that hard to accomplish. However, some people say "college will always be there", while others say the opposite and say "poker will always be there."

I appreciate all the comments so far (I've read them all), and hope to have more coming and hear more as well. Sorry if some of what I said doesn't make sense, I'm a lil buzzed, but good thing I'm disciplined to not play any poker when I have alcohol in me.

[xwillience]

your accomplishments are pretty impressive. I would like to say im in the same boat as you being a 20 year old college senior, def dont want to work a bitch job, not to mention ive got more experience running a business than most managers today ( ive been in business for msyelf since i was 16 and have started three successful companies (my first was only successful by a dollar tho)) I KNOW that i am not capable of working a 9-5 cubicle job. the only difference is that i play 3/6 instead of 30/60. i constantly face this question and am lucky enough to be surrounded by good people that keep me in school.

I could care less about the money ive already spent on school or having a gaurenteed paycheck (thats half the allure of poker). I stay because i will be the first person in my family to attend and graduate college, because i believe that that stupid piece of paper that you hang on your wall is a symbol of your dedication to things you want to succeed at, not to mention it gives you credit amongst your peers. Finish what you start, you dont have that much further to go, and if the poker bubble suddenly dies say in the event of a nuclear holocaust or a meteor striking vegas u can always fall back on your degree. anyways i dont know if this will help but without a doubt stay in school. If your at all like i am then your there just to say you did it anyways... so just do it.

[tongni]

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To clarify some things, I'm a 19 year old 2nd year college student. I win consistently in 30/60 (sometimes go higher if tables are good). All of my money goes towards paying for college (tuition, housing, books), then gets locked away in mutual funds (my cousin is a former financial advisor and is currently a VP for a major investment company, so he hooks me up w/ good advice), a small amount goes towards enjoyment/spending/impuse buying and then taxes :P; I still drive a 1990 POS car - my desire for excess spending (esp on a depreciating asset) is close to non-existant. 2 dedicated, full-time, non-tilt, winning months for me at 30/60 >> one year of income @ 40 hrs+/week with a college degree from the university I go to (UT Austin). Plus the theory of the "poker bubble" eventually going bad makes me think about missed out opportunity cost when I don't dedicate myself 100% to poker. If I focus on poker instead of school for the next few years until the "poker bubble" "busts" (if it does), being worth 500k does not sound that hard to accomplish. However, some people say "college will always be there", while others say the opposite and say "poker will always be there."


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I'm in pretty much the same spot, 19 as well, but a junior since I skipped a grade. Only difference is I drive a 1991 POS : ). This may sound dumb and maybe a little disingenuous, but if I had a year more to go I would probably drop out. I would set a goal, say, you make an additional 100k by the end of the semester, you quit school. It's tough though, as you'll be giving up alot of social life and health insurance and all that jazz. The stay in school speech is for the kids making 1 bb/100 at 5/10 and wondering if they should drop out and play 80 hours a week 8 tabling to make 400k a year or whatever stupid number they come up with. When you 8 table 30/60, I think 400k is a pretty modest goal.

[Schneids]

I would want at least 250,000 hands at 30/60 or higher and to be winning at least 8BB/hr doing so (so 1BB/hr/table 8 tabling or 2BB/hr/table 4 tabling) [ok looking back maybe saying 6BB/hr is a good number for the 4 tabler] AND still have 2 or more years left of school, before I'd consider quitting school to be a viable option. If like, say you have 60,000 hands of 30/60 and are winning 10BB/hr, you may quit school then 6 months from now discover poker isn't really this easy and you were running very hot over those hands... Especially with how loose aggressive a lot of us here play (as well as the LAG nature of most mid-high games online), it's going to take a long time for many of us young guys to know if we're actually as good as we think we are so far, or if we're just largely benificiaries of being hot running players.

I think staying in school is like good BR management... You as a 30/60 player wouldn't just one day play 300/600 suddenly just because the game appears good, I don't think. Playing in a game underrolled is like rolling the dice on a favorable (but not guaranteed) situation, sort of like quitting school is rolling the dice on a favorable situation that isn't a guarantee. What is a guarantee though is if you get a degree and poker turns sour, your degree WILL help you earn more money... So, quitting school for poker is a lot like good BR management since it allows you to stay in the game and pursuit of +EV situations, especially when there are many people on these boards who do go to school and still can put in an amount of hours that allows them to earn $20,000-$50,000 per month. I'd hate for someone to quit, then find out 12-18 months from now after he's played another 200k-400k hands that he is only a .4BB/100 winner 1-tabling in an online $30/60 game and who was running very hot in his X-sized hand DB when he decided to quit (Imagine the kind of headache inducing swings this player could see if he tried to 6 table as someone who can in fact only win .4BB/100 doing 1-table!).

I don't know you and I don't know how many hands you've played and I don't know how good you are, but that is what my general response would be to someone thinking of quitting school.

[john kane]

whatever will make you happier.

and as to the guy who said about dropping out of college is -EV due to the money you've spent so far at college. wrong. it is a sunk cost and so you shouldnt even think about it. the decision to start college only to quit before graduating would probably be -EV depending on many factors, but the decision at this time shouldnt involve how much he/parents have already spent, expecet for any negative feelings over having spent that much only to quit, but the $ value spent itself shouldnt be involved, only the emmotional discomfort at having spent that much.

Personally, if i were you, id quit college. Id stay at college, enjoy the social scene, live in a house with your college mates, but play poker as a living. you have the best of both worlds - living at college with your mates and earning a fortune. i would like to do that by the anger from my parents is would be too much to bare and the guilt id feel would make it a -EV decision.

Be advised that I've heard several poker pros, such as Chris Ferguson declare that the current poker boom is a bubble. It will probably deflate when the nouveau fish get frustrated that you have to be 75-90th percentile player just to break even. When that happens it will be much tougher to make a living since only the sharks in that 70-90th+ percentile will remain.

That said, I did take a year off to make some $$$$ at a lavishly compensated defense contractor union job.
That made the rest of college much more comfortable.
The problem with college you have lots of time, but no money. Then you go to work 8-5 and have lots of money (assuming one's in an employable major) but no time.

Also consider that the money you're making might seem to
be great while you're in a dorm or the typically squalid
student hovel but might not be so great supporting an actual adult lifestyle. For instance, could it qualify you for a loan on a decent condo and car?

Just don't let classes slide and flunk out. Withdraw formally at semester's end in good standing so you can
return if/when the poker scene goes south.