Hit a backdoor flush draw - how to extract on river?

[detruncate]

Pretty easy flop call. The one person left to act would be c/r'ing a pf raiser + caller on an A-high board. I wouldn't worry about it too much since it's not likely to happen unless she flopped a very big hand or draw. Most fairly reasonable seeming opponents err on the side of passivity.

Nice river bet (unless you were sneaky with the color tag... in which case, way to take your posting to a deeper level and I hope you bet out).

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that flop call is pretty close. That said, I'd probably do it, but certainly wouldn't critize someone for folding.

We are not closing the action here, a raise behind would make me sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I think it is potentially dangerous to count 5 clean outs here as making a nut-straight on a 3 flush board COULD make us an expensive 2nd best hand. I would call as I don't tend to look for monsters under the bed but they are sometimes there all the same!

[Greg J]

1) I think the flop call is fine. I make it.

2) Play nice. Please. Let's not get catty people.

[kai]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice river bet

[/ QUOTE ]

can you explain why my thinking was wrong in my previous post:

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think that MP3 will raise this very often. Nor do i think MP1 calls very often, since the river did not complete anything he was drawing to (unless he was also on the backdoor flush draw and then it doesnt matter what we do, well get a lot of action). So betting out in my opition gets us one bet.

On the other hand if its checked to MP3, I think he bets this almost always, and then we get two bets (unlikely, but maybe more)

[/ QUOTE ]

is it just a question of judging how often MP3 bets out when it is checked to him? is that where you disagree with me?

edit: Im saying we get two bets because im advocating check raising of course.

[ClaytonN]

The flop call is close, and definitely close enough that you goons ridiculing those saying fold because it's an automatic call or something really need to can it.

You're getting 9.5:1 on a discounted gutshot and a BD flush draw with likely callers behind you on the flop. I would definitely think of this as a thin call.

Turn is standard.

River is bet/3bet. No need to get tricky. Get paid off.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
is it just a question of judging how often MP3 bets out when it is checked to him? is that where you disagree with me?

[/ QUOTE ]

For starters, I think you're underestimating the chance that MP1 calls. He's called at every opportunity. That might mean he's on a flush draw, but he could easily have an Ace or other pair he's committed to showing down unless all hell breaks loose.

I'm also a bit concerned that MP3 checks behind sometimes. He might have been betting KK/QQ and was hoping that he was ahead or could take it down on the turn and/or didn't want to give a free card and/or planned to take a free showdown. He also might chicken out with an A, especially if his kicker is weak. On the other hand, if he's strong he might raise. Our hand is pretty well disguised and a set or Aces up might well think he's got the best hand.

The correctness of your conclusion relies on your premises. If MP1 is as unlikely to call as you suggest, the c/r is clearly better. It isn't terrible either way. I just think we do better in the long run by betting.

[pokernicus]

Thanks for all the replies! I ended up betting on the river (as one astute person realized given the inadvertent use of color on the font [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). MP1 called (showing a weak A6o) and MP3 folded.