river questions

RustyCJ · #1 10-29-2005, 03:08 PM

Value betting the river is a struggle for me, when to check and when to bet, here are a couple hands I have questions on. Should i have played either of these differently along the way?

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (10.70 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO raises, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 18.70 BB

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, MP3 calls, 4 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (4.70 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

River: (6.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.70 BB

PokerSparky · #2 10-29-2005, 03:13 PM

There's no other way to play both of these hands IMO. Without reads, I call the river raise in both of them and expect to lose both of them.

RustyCJ · #3 10-29-2005, 03:16 PM

my thoughts too, but with all the problems I've on the river lately I'm going to post numerous hands with river problems/questions.

PokerSparky · #4 10-29-2005, 03:19 PM

FWIW, I think river value betting is one of the most difficult aspects of becoming a good poker player. I'm still wrestling with it.

adsman · #5 10-29-2005, 03:19 PM

Hand 1 I checkraise the turn.
Hand 2 I checkcall the river.

kai · #6 10-29-2005, 03:22 PM

Without any reads how do you know MP3 will bet the turn? Do you really wanna risk giving a free card here?

shadow29 · #7 10-29-2005, 03:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 I checkraise the turn.
Hand 2 I checkcall the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't do either of these.

RustyCJ · #8 10-29-2005, 03:26 PM

for hand 2, part of me wanted to check but there are LOTS of hand he could've been calling all the way with, AT, KT, AK, KQ even A high for that matter.

I lost both hands, I was more surpised to lose hand 1 than hand 2, hand 2 just seemed to be ripe for a fullhouse, these losers love to coldcall with KJ.

Blunderfull1 · #9 10-29-2005, 03:46 PM

With hand 2, you should value bet this because there are lots of hands that he might call a bet with, but check if you check.
Whoops I thought the river was an eight, but a pair of kings would check behind on that board.

Nfinity · #10 10-29-2005, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With hand 2, you should value bet this because there are lots of hands that he might call a bet with, but check if you check. An example would be KQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think opponent will check the second nut straight here if we check to him.