Atlanta vs. Miami (November 6) - Opportunity Knocks in a Big Way

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Vick changes the way defenses play. Give him Manning's receivers and I'd bet we hear the accuracy issues (unjustifiably) go away. He's got nothing to work with right now.

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Syg, I disagree with this. Vick's passing ineffectiveness is more a product of Vick not being completely comfortable with the offense and with reading defenses generally and with his general inaccuracy, than with the receivers. He will improve, but he will never be Peyton Manning or anything close. I further contend that it doesn't matter.

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My comment was intended ambivalence...he will complete a few more passes because of separation and the sheep talking heads won't mention his accuracy as often, but in the end it still won't change the fact he's an inaccurate QB.

Ed: unless I'm missing your point and you're saying that he is accurate but simply has too many problems understanding the offense.

[YoureToast]

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Vick changes the way defenses play. Give him Manning's receivers and I'd bet we hear the accuracy issues (unjustifiably) go away. He's got nothing to work with right now.

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Syg, I disagree with this. Vick's passing ineffectiveness is more a product of Vick not being completely comfortable with the offense and with reading defenses generally and with his general inaccuracy, than with the receivers. He will improve, but he will never be Peyton Manning or anything close. I further contend that it doesn't matter.

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My comment was intended ambivalence...he will complete a few more passes because of separation and the sheep talking heads won't mention his accuracy as often, but in the end it still won't change the fact he's an inaccurate QB.

Ed: unless I'm missing your point and you're saying that he is accurate but simply has too many problems understanding the offense.

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Its a little of both. He's inaccurate in part because he doesn't read defenses too well and forces passes he shouldn't have to force. He's also inaccurate because he doesn't have a great pass blocking OL that gives him passing lanes from which to clearly see the field. There are a lot of factors to it.

[VarlosZ]

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Well thanks for picking out 1 point of about 5. I'll assume you agree with the rest.

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It's just easier to have a conversation that way. But, if you insist. . .

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In addition, LT and Brees is 2 big contracts, Vick is 1.

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Vick's is not merely big, but a monster, Manning-sized contract -- since I don't think he's that good of a QB, it goes without saying that I think that's nuts. Since Brees and Vick are both good QBs, and Brees' long-term contract will be significatly cheaper than Vick's, from my point of view it looks like San Diego will be free-rolling on the contract with the best RB in football compared to Vick's contract.

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Speaking of Brees, how often do you see him run for 1st downs on 3rd and long when pass coverage is sharp?

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Not often. Yet, how often do you see him throw a bad pass when the coverage isn't sharp, or make a bad decision? Again, not often. We could go 'round in circles like this all day.

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Even a RB as great as LT can be stopped or slowed with 8 men in the box. . .

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. . . and Vick can be stopped by an athletic front 7.

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Vick changes the way defenses play.

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Yes, but in more ways than one. If he gets unquantifiable bonus points for forcing the defense to adapt to his running ability, then he also gets unquantifiable penalty points for allowing the defense to cheat on its conventional pass coverage. I'm not saying the latter completely cancels out the former, but it's a big deal.

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Give him Manning's receivers and I'd bet we hear the accuracy issues (unjustifiably) go away. He's got nothing to work with right now.

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Maybe, but I think it's more likely to work the other way around: give the Falcons' receivers Manning behind center, and I bet we hear the bad receivers issue (unjustifiably) go away. Every Falcons game I see, almost all of the should-be-routine passes have got the receivers leaping and contorting to make the play. On the difficult throws, half the time they don't even do that as the ball is so far off they have no play on it.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I think we mostly agree except that I see Vick's passing deficiency/improvising skills as more of a net positive than do you.

The problem I have with the Vick for LT/Brees "trade" is that most people look at it as asimple 2 for 1 without thinking at all about contract or salary cap ramifications. In essence, you can take either Vick/Dunn or LT/Brees since both QB/RB combos command a fairly similar amount of the salary cap.

[VarlosZ]

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The problem I have with the Vick for LT/Brees "trade" is that most people look at it as asimple 2 for 1 without thinking at all about contract or salary cap ramifications. In essence, you can take either Vick/Dunn or LT/Brees since both QB/RB combos command a fairly similar amount of the salary cap.

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That's a good point. Dunn is a good deal for the Falcons, by the way. What's his salary cap number, $2.5M-$3M? Maybe less. Anyway, Brees/Tomlinson may well end up being more expensive than Vick/Dunn, which does have to be taken into consideration.

[jedi]

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Worst trade ever: Vick for LT? Atlanta got jobbed by San Diego on that one.
natedogg

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Ya think?...Why don't you go take a look at Atlanta's record with Vick, Atlanta's record without Vick and LaDanian's record since that trade?

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Actually I think this debate boils down to...would you be better off with Brees/LT or Vick/Dunn?

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I think "worst trade ever" is quite the hyperbole. As a Chargers Fan, I'm very glad the trade was made, but at the time, we NEEDED a QB (after reeling from the whole Ryan Leaf thing), so Vick was the obvious choice. However, I was of the opinion that QBs need time to develop, and that "good" QBs are nearly as valuable as "great" QBs, which are tough to evaluate anyways (Tom Brady in the 6th round anyone?). That having been said, when the trade was announced, I was holding my breath to see which team would pick up Brees because I thought he was late 1st round material. As it was, the Chargers got a record-setting QB from Purdue. Can't be sad with that one. Falcons got an electric QB who put butts in the seats. Can't be sad about that one either.