Free Tables and Learning (first post)

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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OR . . . think about this: If you can't beat the free tables (or tourneys/SNG's) consistently, it's not unrealistic to think that you can't beat money tables consistently.

Correct me if the above statement seems incorrect.

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Your statement is usually correct. But different playing styles etc. does not necessarily makes the lowest level the most comfortable to beat. If I play 3/6 limit I feel my natural style automatically makes me a winner (not pr session due to variance but in the longer run), but both when I play lower or higher I have to adjust to win and it makes it more of an effort.

[AAAA]

One site for sure has play money games where you have to win chips to be able to sit at the higher limit free tables. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that these games are a bit more intense than totally free games, because if you lose, you won't have enough chips to sit at the higher games. There is a risk of loss.

Tourneys are also better than ring games in free money, since there is a risk of loss to some degree. When you lose your chips you are out of the excitement.

Yes, there is satisfaction in "winning," but poker is played for money. If there is no risk of loss, it is impossible to bluff, and that is a very big part of the game.

When I first played, I played $1/$3 and thought it was plenty high enough! Now, I play $10/$20 and feel very comfortable, and pot limit $1000 pots aren't common, but they happen and the chips are just chips, but the skill is there in knowing how many chips will get called when you wnat to be called, and how many will make someone lay a hand down when you missed...if you can't make someone lay cards down, it isn't poker.

[crew]

My summary: Can you get better by playing play money? Sure, but in the same way you can get get better by reading War and Peace or The Grapes of Wrath.

It's admirable you are trying to build such a strong foundation of knowledge, but since this is a money motivated game, play for money.

You are 457, or something to that effect, so I'm sure you can make a small deposit. Deposit $200, find out what you like to play, and move up stakes. Start with one table, and the expand.

Trust me, the hand histories you review, or discuss here, will be much more valuable when you are making the decisions, and you are winning or losing real money.

[BlackRain]

Bigsky, check your pm.

Much better to learn either from the micro limit tables $.05/.10 or from freroll tournaments with actual cash prizes.

People play better when there's money on the line, and you don't improve unless your opponents are actually trying.

Excellent comments and thanks all!

A few replies. I AM back to playing for "real" money for one main reason: it changes the play of the people I play against.

It does not change how I play as I try to play my best poker regardless of the stakes.

Actually, the above statement is wrong (looked good at first tho'). It DOES change my play because it changes their play. Especially playing at low limits as I am often playing against "scared money" or newbies.

I think that was the main point of y'all who told me to "play for money".

At the right NL table (the ones sharks hope to find), I can take money with nothing - refer to "The Bible".

At the wrong table, I am toast to someone who outplays me.

I will continue to play for fake $ at games where I am weak - especially limit holdem SNG tables and stud. And at games where I can up my skills for neutral EV (not counting my time). Namely, limit SNG tourneys.

(I've never played B&M, and limit is what is spread locally. Limit is NOT the same game as NLHE, and I think the free games can help me to think in "limit" terms - something that I am not used to.)

IOW, I will use "play money" SNG's to up my skills where my skills are weak, and this really was my point - sorta kinda.

I am weak at stud, and I never will be good at stud because I do not have the card memory some have. Like Jesus or Rainman.

I can win at stud (low limit) only because other folks play so bad at it. But it's not my game, and takes too long to play.

Last remarks:

1) I CAN learn from playing "free" - because it forces me to think about each hand and why I play them. It's a game against "live" people who play like "people" play (vs. how a computer plays) - even if they play poorly.

2) I can learn more if I play for money because it changes how my opponents play against me.

3) I will stick to games I can beat and enjoy. I like Omaha and NLHE. I can win there. I hate stud, so I won't play it. I'm not good at limit, but it's the game that is spread at B&M most often, so I will try to get better at it.

This is a good board, thanks for your help. I will try to contribute by asking odd questions.

TJ

[and before I post elsewhere on something else. Where? I should tell you that drugs are bad! M'kay . . . Don't do drugs. M'kay. Because drugs are bad.)

BTW, I did check my pm.

It's still there.

The ladies are curious about it, but that's another tale.

TJ

TJ <=== actually has no idea whaat a "pm" is.

[solucky]

I dont think that the " fun tables " help alot. Try out the freerolls at sample on " empire". If you are a winning player you will win money without any risk, read the forum and play sometimes not like anyone expect [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Sometimes I feel both "sol" and "ucky".

Thanks for the "heads up" tho sol.

and thanks for the odds link ballz!

I will seriously consider all of your advice - and then I will discard it after six shots of decent vodka.

Thanks anyway.

TJ

[jopke]