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#11
10-24-2005, 10:46 PM
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Re: Something that I\'m having problems with!
This is something I'm struggling with as well. I think the real question is what to do after the flop raise. According to others here, it seems to be safe to call the flop and check/fold the turn UI.
If villain is that aggressive against you, you can call the next time he raises you (and you actually have a made hand) and then C/R the turn or river to get some extra bets. I know it seems like you're being played against by weak hands, but how do you know. Any pair has you drawing to 6 outs. Just because their hand is "weak" doesn't mean it's not better than yours! Try to learn (by watching and getting reads) who is overly aggressive vs. you without a made hand, and who actually has something. Vs. an unknown, it's usually best to assume the villain has something. 
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#12
10-24-2005, 10:53 PM
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Re: Something that I\'m having problems with!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't understand what you're saying here. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe what I am saying makes no sense. Ok, I would like to try again! Say you are the floater and you pick hands like small pocket pairs and other decent-looking hands like QJs or ATs to float. Now the flop comes raggy and you are heads-up. The raiser bets as he will usually do. He holds a pocket pair less often than he holds AK/AQ/KQ/AJ/etc. Aren't you right to raise him every time regardless of your holding if he never 3-bets you without a big pocket pair? This is my problem. My defence is to sometimes put on a power play if I'm the original raiser. But I'm getting 4-bet on the flop by weak hands [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] If you think someone is floating you here a lot and taking shots at you, I would just call him down. You might take down the pot with the best hand, and you get to see what he's taking shots at you with cheaply. Plus it set's you up nicely for the next time you have an overpair and can c/r his ass on the turn.
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#13
10-24-2005, 10:55 PM
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Re: Something that I\'m having problems with!
[ QUOTE ]
Any pair has you drawing to 6 outs. [/ QUOTE ] And, if you have 6 outs, you need _____ pot odds to continue on the flop. You need ____ pot odds to continue on the turn. Remember, too, if he's playing Ax and has paired x, you're actually only drawing to 3 outs, in which case you need (insert questions above, here).
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#14
10-24-2005, 11:03 PM
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Re: Something that I\'m having problems with!
[ QUOTE ]
Give me a hint, please. [/ QUOTE ] Think about the caliber of your opponent. Think about the total range of hands villain might be cold-calling preflop. Think about the types of hands he might be "taking shots" with and the types of "legitimate" raising hands he could hold. Think about how those hands respond to a 3-bet. Think about what the flop cap means. Think about the number of outs you have if you happen to be behind. Think about the size of the pot.
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#15
10-24-2005, 11:29 PM
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Re: Something that I\'m having problems with!
[ QUOTE ]
Think about the caliber of your opponent. [/ QUOTE ] He is unknown. [ QUOTE ] Think about the total range of hands villain might be cold-calling preflop. [/ QUOTE ] For an unknown he will have a wide range. Presumably neither of us will hit a raggy board though. [ QUOTE ] Think about the types of hands he might be "taking shots" with and the types of "legitimate" raising hands he could hold. [/ QUOTE ] Unless he flopped a set then his play makes no sense to me. Any hand he raises is a hand with which he is taking a shot. If he thought he had the best hand preflop, he should raise and get it heads-up so that the blinds don't accidentally flop a winner. Now do you see my problem? [ QUOTE ] Think about how those hands respond to a 3-bet. [/ QUOTE ] Hard for me to say. I'm having problems when the flop stays at 3 bets or goes to 4 bets. [ QUOTE ] Think about what the flop cap means. [/ QUOTE ] Likely AK is behind and drawing to 6 outs. Or he flopped a set. Or he is crazy and AK is ahead. [ QUOTE ] Think about the number of outs you have if you happen to be behind. [/ QUOTE ] 6 outs. [ QUOTE ] Think about the size of the pot. [/ QUOTE ] Pot is 6.75 BB on the turn after I get 4-bet on the flop. Now what?
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#16
10-24-2005, 11:49 PM
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Re: Something that I\'m having problems with!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Think about the types of hands he might be "taking shots" with and the types of "legitimate" raising hands he could hold. [/ QUOTE ] Unless he flopped a set then his play makes no sense to me. Any hand he raises is a hand with which he is taking a shot. If he thought he had the best hand preflop, he should raise and get it heads-up so that the blinds don't accidentally flop a winner. Now do you see my problem? [/ QUOTE ] I think this is where your problem is. At micro limits he could be cold calling you with anything A10, JJ, any pocket pair, suited connectors I mean seriously anything. So don't try to think about what hands make sense for this guy to have. The only important thing is "what does his flop raise mean?" If he is doing this like all the time, or you have seen him do it with a non-made hand, then call him down. Otherwise, if you think he has at least a pair, just call the flop raise and check/fold the turn unimproved, as you don't have odds to continue.
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#18
10-24-2005, 11:53 PM
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Re: Something that I\'m having problems with!
[ QUOTE ]
But I'm getting 4-bet on the flop by weak hands [/ QUOTE ] I think you are rarely getting 4-bet on the flop by weak hands. After CO capped the flop, why keep firing UI on the turn and river? DU
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#19
10-25-2005, 01:55 AM
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Re: Something that I\'m having problems with!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Think about the caliber of your opponent. [/ QUOTE ] He is unknown. [ QUOTE ] Think about the total range of hands villain might be cold-calling preflop. [/ QUOTE ] For an unknown he will have a wide range. Presumably neither of us will hit a raggy board though. [/ QUOTE ] Why do you assume this? Is this conclusion consistent with the previous sentence? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Think about the types of hands he might be "taking shots" with and the types of "legitimate" raising hands he could hold. [/ QUOTE ] Unless he flopped a set then his play makes no sense to me. Any hand he raises is a hand with which he is taking a shot. If he thought he had the best hand preflop, he should raise and get it heads-up so that the blinds don't accidentally flop a winner. [/ QUOTE ] Why do you assume he's going to do this? As an aside, he "should" be 3-betting *ANY* hand he's playing here, even if he doesn't think it's the best one. [ QUOTE ] Now do you see my problem? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. You need to learn about the game you're playing. It seems as if you don't really have much of a sense of what's going on around you at the poker table. You called this "very typical". Go back and find all examples of this "typical" play and study them. What sorts of hands cold-called you? What sorts of hands do you see at the showdown when you're raised on the flop? In fact, it would be a good exercise to go through some hands and look at what people cold-call with at whatever game you're playing. It would also be good to find hands where the flop gets capped, and see what sorts of hands make it to the showdown.
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#20
10-25-2005, 01:59 AM
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Re: Something that I\'m having problems with!
yerma
what were you trying to accomplish with the 3rd bet on the flop? is the CO the type of player to call with hands worse than AK high like KQ high? is the CO the type of player to go crazy with flush draws? even if he is he slows down on the turn so it really makes me think he has a better hand than AK hi. it sucks missing with AK but youll get used to it. if you lose with this hand it should only be a couple of bb, you went crazy. when you find yourself tilting take a break. if you say you were not tilting i will ignore you and never respond to your posts again.
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