Dumping AKo preflop - Page 2

catlover · #11 10-23-2005, 01:40 PM

Just to add fuel to the fire --

I will miniraise whenever all of the following are true:

A) I am first into the pot.
B) No one has posted a late position blind.
C) My position is not a blind, the cutoff, or the button.

In this spot, I never limp, and I never make a big raise. I always miniraise or fold.

The things I like about this play are:
1) I give away no information about my hand.
2) The big blind does not get to see the flop for free.

HoldEmKillah · #12 10-23-2005, 01:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it's good to mix it up...mixing it up is fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like calling the whole way with AA? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

octop · #13 10-23-2005, 02:05 PM

Catlovwer while it is true they cant put you on a hand it is also true that you will have people going with you to the flop
I find it ammusing that you are afraid to give the BB a free hand but dont mind letting everyone else catch a cheap flop

tom441lbk · #14 10-23-2005, 02:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just to add fuel to the fire --

I will miniraise whenever all of the following are true:

A) I am first into the pot.
B) No one has posted a late position blind.
C) My position is not a blind, the cutoff, or the button.

In this spot, I never limp, and I never make a big raise. I always miniraise or fold.

The things I like about this play are:
1) I give away no information about my hand.
2) The big blind does not get to see the flop for free.

[/ QUOTE ]

When i play live 1-2 deepstacked here in town, i reraise all minraisers, unless someone gets to them first(almost always in position though, depending on donk level)

catlover · #15 10-23-2005, 02:32 PM

I know my play goes against popular opinion so it is easy to just dismiss me. For those who want to take the effort to think it through:

I believe the most important considerations in raise size are:

1) Knocking out the big blind
2) Pot size with cold callers behind me
3) How much I lose to a big hand behind me.

Let's look at each of them in turn.

1) From the point of view of getting rid of the big blind, obviously a bigger raise will be more effective. However, my experience is that the difference is very small. If they have garbage, they will throw it away in either case. If they have a good hand they will always play. There a few intermediate strength hands that they will play against the miniraise but not against the big raise.

2) From the point of view of someone calling behind me, it's a wash. Regardless of whether I make a miniraise or a big raise, we are both putting in the same amount of money preflop. And I'm not afraid to play with them after the flop. They have the advantage of position, but I have the advantage that my average starting hand is stronger than theirs.

3) Lastly, if someone has a big hand like aces behind me, obviously it is better if I miniraised.

So of our three situations, #1 is a slight reason to make a bigger raise, #2 is a wash, and #3 is a reason to miniraise. Taken together, I believe the balance is in favour of miniraising.

If I have the cutoff or the button, #3 becomes less important, which is why I make a bigger raise from those seats.

#16 10-23-2005, 02:40 PM

That's terrible reasoning Catlover. If you don't want to give any info about your hand away, you need a better system of raising. Try something like opening for a pot size raise which if you are first in is 3.5xBB + 1BB/limper

What if you have aces and open for a mini-raise in MP. The blinds can easily call as well as a wide variety of hands from late position. Now you have terrible reverse implied odds and will put yourself in many bad spots with any big hands. Any preflop pair and a lot of late position speculation hands will call you. Now what happens if you flop an A or a K with AK? You are most likely out of position and will not make any money if you have the best hand and stand to lose a lot of money when you have the worst of it.

Someone possibly having a big hand behind you is not a reason to mini-raise. I don't even know how you come up with that logic.

mgsimpleton · #17 10-23-2005, 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it's good to mix it up...mixing it up is fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like calling the whole way with AA? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

haha... i wonder what happens when the river bricks, what do you do then?

#18 10-24-2005, 09:54 AM

Sorry, but I have to say that minraise was kind of gay. You didn't really say too much about how he plays. So now you're really relying on your read of the guy after your minraise. Did you have some history against him and wanted a reraise?

If raising 3BB preflop is too much $ for you, maybe you should move down a limit... AK is way too big a hand to play weakly preflop.

Chaostracize · #19 10-24-2005, 10:15 AM

Duck, where are you?

Nothing is that bad with the minraise. As Flynn says:
The best stories come with a preflop minraise."

4ever · #20 10-24-2005, 11:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I will miniraise whenever all of the following are true:

A) I am first into the pot.
B) No one has posted a late position blind.
C) My position is not a blind, the cutoff, or the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like very much that this post became a discussion about min raising. I didn't really expect to see anyone who thought it was a good idea, especially PF. I have a big problem with it. If I ever become a good player, it will have much to do with me not letting a min raiser get to me. I take it personally when someone thinks they can limit the field without risking anything.

Even those of you who limp with aces hoping to get a raise, (I can almost respect this from utg, but not quite) You're just going to continue to see yourself getting snapped off by people who just won't fold on general principle.

Short handed game, minraisers will get no folds from me..I don't care what I have. This is no good but I'll keep taking these ones for the team until they learn.