Bet out on turn or go for check raise?

(grunching)

flop: betting out is good, because UTG pre-flop capper is likely to raise behind you, and make it 2 cold to the others.
turn: Since UTG called your 3-bet on the flop, you were the last agressor on the flop, and will have to lead on the turn. CO & MP are on some kind of draw, so they shouldn't get a free river card. I would have rather seen this hand without the result of the turn check-through. It kind of skews it for me. UTG capped pre-flop, but he called the 3-bet. If this were HU, a c/r might work, but it's a family pot.

[Buccaneer]

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subtract 10 master class points.

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Darn, now my point total is -7,386,530.

[Buccaneer]

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Checking the turn makes me want to throw up and offends the poker gods.

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In the future please be careful and do not read my post for one hour after eating, just like swimming. If you get that nasty taste in your mouth try scope or do like boz and use a beer. I suggest a wheat beer with a lemon slice poured at about 55 degrees into a room temp glass, it works for me. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Sometimes you don't say what I want you to say but you say what I need hear.

[Buccaneer]

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When you checked that turn, god killed a kitten. Good job.

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I kill lots of kittens.

[bozlax]

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When you checked that turn, god killed a kitten. Good job.

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I kill lots of kittens.

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From a "How Good A Darth Vader Would You Be?" quiz, located here:


Optional ethics section:
You are given a choice between killing a kitten and eating a Twinkie.

You:

a) Give them both a hug
b) Kill the Twinkie
c) Kill the kitten
d) Kill the kitten with the Twinkie
e) Kill the kitten with the Twinkie, then eat the twinkie filled kitten.

I think the correct answer is (e). How did I ever fill my days before the Internet?

[AlmightyJay]

You do realize that you ere the flop aggressor, right? You can't 3-bet the flop and then try to check-raise the turn.

[shabamgoddam]

i would have definately led the turn after the 3-bet was just called. i find it hard to check-raise the turn after you showed so much aggression on the flop. check-raising on the flop might have got it capped on the flop and then you could lead the turn and river. anyway, you won a nice pot.

[Buccaneer]

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You do realize that you ere the flop aggressor, right? You can't 3-bet the flop and then try to check-raise the turn.

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OK, everyone hates my turn check. I am going to go out on a limb and say I still would play this hand the same. Please let me explain and if you disagree please give me a reason(s).

I know that I was the agressor and that I was ahead. I had AA and the turn was an A giving me trips. I do not fear a flush, quads, or a full house at this time. A straight is a possibility but I do not think that it is probable that someone is on a straight draw. I know that this is a Party Poker skin and stupid stuff happens, but I liked my odds against any pocket pair and if someone has hit trips also I have them dominated and would bet that hand till I run out of money.

The turn A and me first to act makes me have to decide some things. First if I bet out will they fold? Yes they might. I don't fold just because an Ace hits the board but I always consider it. I did not think that I was up against three battle hardened 2+2'ers who might be chewing barbed wire and decide to raise me if I bet out so I figured that if I bet out several or all of these guys would fold. I decided to hide my strength giving them a moment to marry thier hands.

Second, I did not think that these guys would remember the preflop and flop play and that if I showed weakness they might want to show a bluff. I am still beating Ax, and all pocket pairs. I was hoping for someone to hold KK, QQ, etc. I would have loved to see a pp trip up!

Third, the river 3 has me fired up. Sure there might be a 24 out there that hits the party poker special straight and if there was I am willing to give it to him. I bet out and get not one, not two, but three calls. Was it because I stopped on the turn like the A scared me? To be honest I don't know but I believe that if I had bet out the turn that I would have lost one or two players and the last one would have folded on the river.

I gave these guys the opportunity to let me check raise them and to flick in one more chip on the river. I collected 3bb.

Other ways this could have worked out:
Bet turn all call turn and river = 6bb
Bet turn all fold = 0bb
Bet turn two fold and one bets the river = 2bb
Bet turn one fold and two bet river =4bb
Bet turn two fold turn and one fold river = 1bb
Bet turn one fold turn and two fold river = 2bb
Bet turn one fold turn and one folds river and one calls river = 3bb

I think all things being equal that the turn and river draw in an average of 3bb, but all things were not equal. My reads told me that there was a good up side to checking the turn and letting someone make a mistake and feed the pot.

The more I think about this one the more I like it. If you don't see why, tell me why.

no kittens were injured, killed, or mistreated while composing this post ----- however one cat lady lost a large part of her herd of about 23 kitties when I played early this afternoon. Kitty blood flowed in the street!

[bozlax]

Buc, all this makes sense, except it's Party .5/1! Against better players you bet this turn and somebody's likely to say, "Hmph. He played aggressively preflop and on the flop, and now there's an ace, he might be on AA or AK, I'd better fold." Sure. Against these guys, you bet this turn and they say, "Hmph. He played aggressively preflop and 3-bet a 9-high flop. I bet he's got JT, and he's trying to scare me off the pot!" OTOH, you check this turn and they say, "What's he think I am, stupid?! He's not going to trick ME like that!" Stop getting fancy, just bet when you can, raise when you can...they'll come along because they actually don't know any better.