Misplayed, but where?

[Macedon]

Here's a great link from a player who plays the way I've described:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...art=2&vc=1

And a post by Soah:
"in limped pots I am much more likely to raise the flop with an obvious draw. If I just call it will be easy to put me on a hand so I get no value when I hit. And in a family pot people will bet their top pair with an 'ok' kicker for protection and see a raise as a big show of strength, and not just a move.

If I've called a preflop raise heads up my opponent is less likely to put me on a draw when I call the flop, so I still have a chance to get paid a bit if I hit. And people who raised preflop will frequently have hands like overpairs that they don't want to fold, and they don't think I will need a big hand to raise them on the flop. So I'm merely putting in additional money as an underdog.

But the main "flaw" with my strategy is that it is tailored to exploit a specific error that many players make -- they play their cards preflop (raising), and they play their cards on the turn (either checking or betting), but on the flop they always bet regardless of their hand strength. A wise man once said that the way to win NL poker is to keep the pot small until you've figured out what everyone has. Since I gain no new information about their hand strength on the flop, I take the action which keeps the pot smallest until I can use the turn action to get a better read on them.

...another part of me just gets pissed off when I raise the flop with nut outs and some clown shoves it all-in with AA and I'm priced out."

So I guess a good counter strategy to these players is to go all-in pre-flop or on the flop OR keep the pot small and call it down. But I still wonder if that is good poker when you have a draw heavy board.
(Yes, I'm trying to answer my own post)

[sourbeaver]

[ QUOTE ]
Other than not getting involved in a pot with players like this (unless you have the nuts), there has got to be a better way of handling a maniac (in these circumstances) than what has been suggested.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes there is. A very tight player is a player you do not want to get involved in a pot with unless you have a big hand. To beat a maniac, you only need a decent hand, and let his aggression work against him, in most situations.

[Macedon]

I realize this is a dead thread, but I couldn't help noticing that there is advice out there to play your hand exactly the way my opponent did in the hand I originally posted.

Look at this advice from Bet-The-Pot.com:
"Again, you call a modest raise with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Now, I don’t always call raises with suited connectors, but when I do, I will sometimes check raise with a draw also. If the flop comes 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and you check raise the preflop raiser, you put a lot of pressure on him.

If he missed the flop, he has to fold, even though you missed also. If he calls, you have outs to hit your hand and believe me that the times you do hit your hand, the payoff will be sweet because he’ll never see it coming.

A play like this will also slow down even a big hand. I’ve gotten to showdown a lot of times for free after the flop. The preflop raiser then saw my cards and even though he may have won THIS hand, has to be worried to be in a big hand with me because he doesn’t know what I'll do."

OK, so the guy didn't check-raise me on the flop, but he did do almost exactly what this guy recommends. Now that I think of it, it is a good play and something I would try myself under the right circumstances.

As an antidote to this play, I think a PUSH is a better play for a player to make with KINGS on this flop.

[Sorry if no one else is interested. I am, so I'll keep responding to my own post, if need be.]

I think that your biggest problems in this hand were your position and the flop; not the fact that you were up against a loose aggressive player. If you bet you will likely be called only by a better hand (or, at best, an opponent who has many outs to beat you). If you check you could well be bluffed off of the best hand. It's ugly.

You decided to continue with your kings. That's OK. You picked the right sort of opponent to do this against, someone who is likely to chase without a made flush. BUT it is still risky. Your loose aggressive opponent won't always have the flush when he calls but you can be sure that he will have something if he calls on this board. Maby it will be as little as a pair and no club, maby it will be a made flush. Often you will be a small favorite, sometimes you will be a big dog. The point is that even when continuing after this flop has a positive expectation it will not be a very big one. That is not because of some great play that your opponent can make. It is simply because the situation is bad for you and good for your opponent.