Top pair on double paired board

ReadyEddie · #1 10-19-2005, 11:49 PM

first orbit around the table, no reads. Any comments?

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (11.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB.

toss · #2 10-20-2005, 12:15 AM

Raise the flop for value.

TheHammer24 · #3 10-20-2005, 12:41 AM

Yeah, I don't see much reason to wait for the tunr. Raise the flop

dacubbie · #4 10-20-2005, 12:48 AM

Likewise, raise the flop. If he's betting his flush draw you want to make him pay, same way with Mp2 calling.

Pog0 · #5 10-20-2005, 01:16 AM

no one likes trapping the field for 2 on the turn rather than the flop? Popping the turn on a safe card looks good to me.

Felipe · #6 10-20-2005, 01:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
first orbit around the table, no reads. Any comments?

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (11.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB.

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Preflop - standard
Flop - I think you need to raise here. Why are you calling, afraid of 44?

Turn - the raise looks ok, but it would have played different had you raised the flop.

River i call this down. Looks like a good opportunity for a bluff - don't get fooled. If you've been pinned as tight, they might try to run you off your Kings up.

ReadyEddie · #7 10-20-2005, 10:46 AM

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Flop - I think you need to raise here. Why are you calling, afraid of 44?

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No i called the flop to raise the turn.

I still like the turn raise because I can't protect on the flop and i can get more value out of it on the turn. Sure the flushes get in for one, but when they miss I can charge them on the turn. And if they hit i can maybe find a fold. Either way they're staying to see the turn.

#8 10-20-2005, 10:52 AM

I still like the turn raise because I can't protect on the flop and i can get more value out of it on the turn. Sure the flushes get in for one, but when they miss I can charge them on the turn. And if they hit i can maybe find a fold. Either way they're staying to see the turn.

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I think this is the right play. You don't protect your pair with a flop raise. Calling flop will most likely have the flop bettor lead out on the turn and now you face the MPs with 2 BB

#9 10-20-2005, 10:57 AM

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I still like the turn raise because I can't protect on the flop and i can get more value out of it on the turn. Sure the flushes get in for one, but when they miss I can charge them on the turn. And if they hit i can maybe find a fold. Either way they're staying to see the turn.

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I think this is the right play. You don't protect your pair with a flop raise. Calling flop will most likely have the flop bettor lead out on the turn and now you face the MPs with 2 BB

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Ummm, no. MP1 is betting, MP2 calls, then we act, so we're not facing anyone with two cold. So we can't protect our hand and should be thinking about value. Much more value in a flop raise as MP1 and MP2 are both going to call. Who's to say that MP1 even leads the turn or if MP2 calls one bet, let alone two, on the turn.

Felipe · #10 10-20-2005, 05:40 PM

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I still like the turn raise because I can't protect on the flop and i can get more value out of it on the turn. Sure the flushes get in for one, but when they miss I can charge them on the turn. And if they hit i can maybe find a fold. Either way they're staying to see the turn.

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I think this is the right play. You don't protect your pair with a flop raise. Calling flop will most likely have the flop bettor lead out on the turn and now you face the MPs with 2 BB

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Ummm, no. MP1 is betting, MP2 calls, then we act, so we're not facing anyone with two cold. So we can't protect our hand and should be thinking about value. Much more value in a flop raise as MP1 and MP2 are both going to call. Who's to say that MP1 even leads the turn or if MP2 calls one bet, let alone two, on the turn.

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The raise on the flop isn't for protection, it is to increase your Expected Value. Its a value raise, and you are given a great opportunity to raise here. you cannot let this one slip. This isn't a monster hand that you can slow play with, call the flop, pop the turn.

My food is on fire - gotta go!