Blind Leaks

[joker122]

"Putting one bet in from the button 5 ways is 4:1. Putting one bet in from the BB 5 ways is 9:1. Huge difference my friend. I will trade position for those odds any day of the week. "

silverback, you should really try to understand this if you don't. i'd say it's fairly important.

[baronzeus]

i dont fold any suited hands in a 4 way raised pot when im in the BB.


oh, also, i call with almost any 2 suited getting 5:1.

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Putting one bet in from the button 5 ways is 4:1. Putting one bet in from the BB 5 ways is 9:1. Huge difference my friend. I will trade position for those odds any day of the week.

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Ok, so which of the hands I mentioned would you play in the BB in 3 (5:1) and 4 way (7:1) pots because you like the odds.

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Almost all of them. 3 way, the Kxs and Qxs hands definitely get defended. 4 way, Jxs and low suited 1 and 2 gappers get played, I'm not sure about the offsuit hands though.

[DMBFan23]

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i dont fold any suited hands in a 4 way raised pot when im in the BB.


oh, also, i call with almost any 2 suited getting 5:1.

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even if it's the SB who raises? I'm pretty liberal with suited stuff and pocket pairs when it's a non-blind raise, but I tend to be tighter when the SB raises.

[Silverback]

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Almost all of them. 3 way, the Kxs and Qxs hands definitely get defended. 4 way, Jxs and low suited 1 and 2 gappers get played, I'm not sure about the offsuit hands though.

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Any chance you (or anyone else) can check your database to see if these are profitable with 3-6 players in a pot Q7s-Q2s?

Also 4-6 players pots J6s-J2s and lower low suited 1 and 2 gappers.
Profit is if your not losing more than 0.50,

State stakes you play if you do give stats,

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Almost all of them. 3 way, the Kxs and Qxs hands definitely get defended. 4 way, Jxs and low suited 1 and 2 gappers get played, I'm not sure about the offsuit hands though.

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Any chance you (or anyone else) can check your database to see if these are profitable with 3-6 players in a pot Q7s-Q2s?

Also 4-6 players pots J6s-J2s and lower low suited 1 and 2 gappers.
Profit is if your not losing more than 0.50,

State stakes you play if you do give stats,

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No shot. I have about 235K hands in my database between all limits and filtering suited hands to specific situations won't even be close to an accurate assessment. Looking quickly, I'm winning with Q4s but losing with Q7s. We just don't get suited hands often enough.

[baronzeus]

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i dont fold any suited hands in a 4 way raised pot when im in the BB.


oh, also, i call with almost any 2 suited getting 5:1.

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even if it's the SB who raises? I'm pretty liberal with suited stuff and pocket pairs when it's a non-blind raise, but I tend to be tighter when the SB raises.

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as long as im getting 7:1 ill call any 2 suited. if im getting 5:1 i call probably 60% of the suited hands (maybe more, i dont have an exact count. but if its me against the SB HU i probably call with any 2 suited. position + a solid hand is usually good enough HU equity wise in my opinion.

[Silverback]

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Looking quickly, I'm winning with Q4s but losing with Q7s. We just don't get suited hands often enough

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I would look at the range of hands Q7s-Q2s, not specific hands, but specific hand ranges.

Also the fact these situations occur so rarely, means they are extremely marginal decisions, and therefore no harm in me folding?

My own database, Im winning Q7s-Q2s in a 3 way pot, but losing 3-6 players, so overal Id say Im losing, just happened to hit the flushes when it was 3 way,

Obviously with even a 100k database this doesnt tell me alot, although it does agree with some recommended blind play from full ring which is to fold these hands.
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Is it worth me addressing these issues in individual threads and getting posters to post data, thoughts etc, for example a thread dedicated to Qxs in the Big Blind? Another on Jxs. One every few days,

I feel alot of HUSH players arent that confident in there blind play and I feel its one area we could all improve if we pooled our data together.

What does anyone think? Im looking talking of blind play in multiway pots, not blind defence against stealer etc which is totally different.

[DMBFan23]

yeah HU I would play a lot of offsuit "crap" that I wouldn't play multiway, especially with position. I guess I was referring more to folding stuff like 22-55 if it's the SB who raises and it's 3-way, where I'd call a button raise + SB coolcall. or folding some of the crappier suited hands if I can't ever trap the field (like it's limpers to a raiser, as opposed to a raiser + coldcaller). things that adversely affect my implied odds and all that. perhaps I've overthought this. it doesn't affect many hands, so it shouldn't have TOO big a difference, but yeah.

[Silverback]

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I'm not sure about the offsuit hands though.


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Im going to have a look at these as well as they are more important as obviously we get dealt them more often.