Restealing Conditions

[tigerite]

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Cards don't matter. Situations matter.

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I'm sorry but this is not true, cards do matter, but they are probably the smallest part of the equation, however the stronger your holding, the less it matters if he calls.. you can't say they don't matter because it's total rubbish.

[rockythecat99]

Trust me they don't matter. Thats the thing with bluffs and restealing is a bluff, the situation matters the most. That is why people don't go far in tournaments because they say well I have Ax in the BB and this guy is raising on the button I am going to resteal because I have Ax. NO. This is clearly incorrect thinking because they wait to have "a hand" and don't think of the situation.

If you had 83o and you knew this guy was trying to steal your bb you can go all in with a positive expectation. Sure there will be a time when he calls and shows you AK or QQ. But this is a plus ev play. Stop thinking about cards so damn much.

Yesterday I bluffed a guy with 43o from utg on a Q109 board because I read the situation correctly not because of the hands I had. Obviously this is a very read specific play and I played solid the rest of the sng but you get my point. If and when you spot a plus ev situation your hand no longer matters its how you bet the hand that matters. I hope that helps.

[tigerite]

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If you had 83o and you knew this guy was trying to steal your bb you can go all in with a positive expectation. Sure there will be a time when he calls and shows you AK or QQ. But this is a plus ev play. Stop thinking about cards so damn much.

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Again, this is not true! Have you actually tried to work it out by ICM, based on how much he folds? When you push with a crap hand he has to fold a LOT more than if you do it with Ax. Unless you're talking about a fold of > 60%, then him calling hurts you much more when you have a really terrible hand. Trust me I have done the calculations and I know.

[rockythecat99]

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If you had 83o and you knew this guy was trying to steal your bb you can go all in with a positive expectation. Sure there will be a time when he calls and shows you AK or QQ. But this is a plus ev play. Stop thinking about cards so damn much.

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Again, this is not true! Have you actually tried to work it out by ICM, based on how much he folds? When you push with a crap hand he has to fold a LOT more than if you do it with Ax. Unless you're talking about a fold of > 60%, then him calling hurts you much more when you have a really terrible hand. Trust me I have done the calculations and I know.

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Ok I think I am going to write a post about this on its own but I have to answer you here. Look stop thinking just because you made an ICM calculation you are right. The point of my response is not to say that in every single sng you play you go all in with 83o. If you do that then of course you are going to lose money.

I am saying that if the SITUATION warrants this move then you can do it with a positive EV. This is something ICM can't calculate. ICM calculates hands versus other hands that YOU THINK a player will call with. If I play you heads up lets say ICM will not help you one bit. Why?? because you don't know what I will call and when. For example I might call and all in from player x with Ace high but will not call player y with Ace high. Why?? Because of my read on each player.

YOu have to play the players and the situations thats something that ICM can't give you. That is the worst thing you can do as a poker player narrow your play because of percentages a computer program gives you.

[tigerite]

This is wrong on so many levels I'm not even going to begin. Think how you like..

The cards obviously matter, but not as much as the situation (Duh).

For example, I have 8/9s on the BB, folded to player in cutoff, makes standard 3x BB raise, we both have 15bb stacks. Do I shove it in here?

That would be a poor question to ask. It depends on the other factors. I have a great hand for "re-stealing", but pushing only on that merit would be terrible. How has villain been playing? If villain has been tight and passed up on a similar opportunity in earlier rounds, I may very well just fold. If villain has been loose and stealing at every decent given opportunity, but I think he is capable of folding enough to be +EV, ramming it in is fine. However, the cards you are holding obviously affect how you fare against villain's calling range and much fold equity you need for the play to be +EV, and saying they are completely meaningless is rediculous. I don't think Rocky meant it that way, I just think he is trying to say the situation is much more important, which it is. If you wouldn't be willing to resteal here with a much worse hand than 9/8s based on other circumstances, its very likely the spot isn't good for a resteal anyway.

[bigt439]

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Trust me they don't matter.

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You are losing credibility at a ridiculously fast pace. Stop being so authoritative when you really don't know what you're talking about. Also if you are going to be this authoritative, try not to do it while making incredibly false statements.