Another interesting hand from the game's "smartest player"

[microbet]

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Very -$EV for this hand anyway. I suppose it was an image play.

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Or he put a very high value on the chips he stood to gain.

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Yeah, I know, Band of Chips and such, but IMO this is too far gone to make it to +$EV without image considerations.

Any system of valuing additional chips more than ICM does still has a contraint that all the chips are only worth 1/2 the total equity.

[Oluwafemi]

i took Sklansky's fingering of Bill Chen to exactly what it was:

Sklansky sees Bill as the smartest person who plays poker. i honestly don't think he meant that Bill is the smartest poker player , which most would argue translate into being the best or among the most successful.

Sklansky even says in his OP that in letting the newbies know who the smartest players are, " that doesn't always mean the best players, but again there is a correlation ". he then goes on to say that no one on the list would have trouble making a pretty good living playing poker if they had to.

if you go back and take a look at the Top 10 list, at least [4] players already make a nice living playing poker [i'm including Ed Miller because he also makes money from his poker authoring thru 2+2, as well as, his play at the tables]. Paul Phillips, although he's already financially well off, lead all tourney players in money won in 2003 [outside of Chris Moneymaker's $2.5 million WSOP ME win].

up until he [Sklansky] made the list, i had never even heard of
William Chen, Mark Weitzman, Tom Weideman, and Jimmy Warren. Jim Geary is the only other one that sounds vaguely familiar and i strongly emphasize vaguely ! if you were to google Chen and Weideman, you'll see exactly why the key word is SMARTEST .

when ZeeJustin came in thread and posted Bill's hand, it almost seemed as he intended to [negatively] show the guy up and make him look bad. Bill Chen certainly may not be on Giga's or Zee's level in playing SNGs online but from what i've gathered, he does make a good deal of money playing poker and it's definitely probably something he doesn't solely have to rely on.

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 34.0281 % 33.74% 00.29% { 22 }
Hand 2: 65.9719 % 65.68% 00.29% { QQ+, AKs, AKo }

Just about any pushing range above 50% of hands is the equivalent to this range for 22 because all of those ranges have roughly 50% PPs and 50% high cards.

There's 910+100+50 = 1060 in the pot, and it costs him 810 to call, meaning he's getting 1.3:1. So the play is definitely -cEV, but not horribly so.

Maybe he was considering metagame concepts. Maybe he thought a being a big stack would be very +EV at this table. Maybe he had to take a piss.

I think the most likely explanation is that it's very hard to always make the correct play, especially when you're playing really intense, thinking poker in which you consider every play every hand.

[KingDan]

I assume he thinks these chips will allow him to run over the table and regain (through stealing) whatever he loses in Chip EV this hand.

But for me this is an instamuck.

[JudoGirl]

ZeeJustin seems to like the move too. This is from the Monte Carlo Satellite. About 13 players left. Top 2 get the package. Justin in about 5th place in chips:


PokerStars Game #2811866698: Tournament #13510423, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2005/10/15 - 18:31:05 (ET)
Table '13510423 8' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: yoorl (18930 in chips)
Seat 3: HangManRoper (9095 in chips)
Seat 4: PULAS (16714 in chips)
Seat 5: dgrimreaper (13403 in chips)
Seat 7: Giiant (5050 in chips)
Seat 8: ZeeJustin (13630 in chips)
Seat 9: atwttp (3100 in chips)
yoorl: posts the ante 25
HangManRoper: posts the ante 25
PULAS: posts the ante 25
dgrimreaper: posts the ante 25
Giiant: posts the ante 25
ZeeJustin: posts the ante 25
atwttp: posts the ante 25
PULAS: posts small blind 100
dgrimreaper: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Giiant: folds
ZeeJustin: raises 400 to 600
atwttp: raises 2475 to 3075 and is all-in
yoorl: folds
HangManRoper: folds
PULAS: folds
dgrimreaper: folds
ZeeJustin: calls 2475
ZeeJustin said, "doh"
*** FLOP *** [Ks Kh Qd]
*** TURN *** [Ks Kh Qd] [6c]
*** RIVER *** [Ks Kh Qd 6c] [8h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ZeeJustin: shows [2h 2s] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
atwttp: shows [Td Tc] (two pair, Kings and Tens)
atwttp collected 6625 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6625 | Rake 0
Board [Ks Kh Qd 6c 8h]
Seat 2: yoorl folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: HangManRoper (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: PULAS (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: dgrimreaper (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: Giiant folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ZeeJustin showed [2h 2s] and lost with two pair, Kings and Deuces
Seat 9: atwttp showed [Td Tc] and won (6625) with two pair, Kings and Tens

[Apathy]

This hand is completely different then the one in the OP.
TOTALLY diferent spots.

[JudoGirl]

True. He wasn't calling off all his chips there. But the comments about this being a race *at best* still apply, no? I don't think I make this call.

[FlyWf]

The upside of 22 is that while it's often a slight dog and never a big favorite, it's relatively rarely a huge dog. Given the payout structure and how ZJ will still have an effective stack if he calls and loses, I think ZeeJustin's call there is entirely reasonable.

[JudoGirl]

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The upside of 22 is that while it's often a slight dog and never a big favorite, it's relatively rarely a huge dog. Given the payout structure and how ZJ will still have an effective stack if he calls and loses, I think ZeeJustin's call there is entirely reasonable.

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It's a huge dog whenever it is up against a bigger pair. So I'm not sure if I buy the *relatively rarely* comment. I do agree that it doesn't put a huge dent in his stack, but it doesn't give him a big lift if he wins either.

(I aplogize for hijacking the thread)

[PrayingMantis]

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ZeeJustin seems to like the move too.

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ZJ's hand has absolutely nothing to do with the hand discussed here.