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#11
10-13-2005, 02:27 PM
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Re: Common Knowledge Question: WA/WB line
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand the final river bet, though. I understand the theory behind it, it's just that the players I'm used to don't play the way the theory says they will. If they're behind, they won't know or care, and having bet the flop and turn, they'll bet the river too if I were to check it. If I bet, they'll call, unless they have no pair and were completely bluffing or on a draw that didn't come through. Or they might raise, if the hand they're behind with seems good enough to them. If they're ahead, they will probably raise my river bet. Or maybe they'll just call. Since I'm gonna have to put in a bet to see the showdown one way or another, I might as well just check it, and call the bet which they are 90% likely to make after I check. [/ QUOTE ] I doubt that your perception of these players is actually accurate. I would challenge you to go through and find a bunch of hands where some villain bets the flop and turn. Then tally up the times villain bets the river and the times villain checks the river. I suspect that you'll find the ratio to be quite far from 90-10. Furthermore, those 10% of the times that the river gets checked through, villain is almost certainly checking behind with the worst hand, so there are missed value bets on at least 10% of those situations. 
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#12
10-13-2005, 03:37 PM
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Re: Common Knowledge Question: WA/WB line
Think about this:
Against a reasonable opponent in a heads up pot, how you would like the action to go when you're fairly certain that (based on previous action) either: A) You have your opponent dominated or B) Your opponent has you dominated (By dominated I don't mean stricly in the sense of AK vs. AQ, but rather any hand where one of you is drawing to 3 outs or fewer. AA vs. KK, for example.) ? How would you prefer the action go? Tell us why. What's your best line when you have position to make that happen? What about when you're out of position?
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#13
10-13-2005, 03:47 PM
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Re: Common Knowledge Question: WA/WB line
Wa/Wb is the best way to slowplay hands in small short handed pots. So if you have KK on an A63 board, it figures to be a good time to use a wa/wb line.
- If he has an ace you lose more by betting. - If he has to hit runners he will fold if you bet and you hope he will take mindless stabs when you check. There are lots of other good wa/wb times (top example can also be applied to multiway pots) Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on a board of J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] + A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
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#14
10-13-2005, 05:11 PM
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Re: Common Knowledge Question: WA/WB line
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't understand the final river bet, though. I understand the theory behind it, it's just that the players I'm used to don't play the way the theory says they will. If they're behind, they won't know or care, and having bet the flop and turn, they'll bet the river too if I were to check it. If I bet, they'll call, unless they have no pair and were completely bluffing or on a draw that didn't come through. Or they might raise, if the hand they're behind with seems good enough to them. If they're ahead, they will probably raise my river bet. Or maybe they'll just call. Since I'm gonna have to put in a bet to see the showdown one way or another, I might as well just check it, and call the bet which they are 90% likely to make after I check. [/ QUOTE ] I doubt that your perception of these players is actually accurate. I would challenge you to go through and find a bunch of hands where some villain bets the flop and turn. Then tally up the times villain bets the river and the times villain checks the river. I suspect that you'll find the ratio to be quite far from 90-10. Furthermore, those 10% of the times that the river gets checked through, villain is almost certainly checking behind with the worst hand, so there are missed value bets on at least 10% of those situations. [/ QUOTE ] I'd like to try this, but there is no easy way to do this using pokertracker. I'd have to check every hand individually.
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#15
10-13-2005, 05:19 PM
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Re: Common Knowledge Question: WA/WB line
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is the thread: Instances of WA/WB [/ QUOTE ] There is absolute gold in that thread. Thanks for linking.
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#16
10-13-2005, 06:23 PM
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Re: Common Knowledge Question: WA/WB line
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm doing some work now but I will give you the example that has become standard here. Shillx has a really good post in a thread from awhile back, I will try and look later but it was just recently bumped. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is the thread: Instances of WA/WB [/ QUOTE ] Excellent thread, I don't know how I missed this in my searches (maybe I didn't go back more than a month although I thought I had). Thanks all! Very helpful.
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