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#11
10-12-2005, 01:33 PM
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Re: $27 JJ hand again
[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you put MP1 on a big PP? He raised 4xBB PF. Couldn't he be trapping with the small bet on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] Thats true. Reading over the hand again I think I may have to change my opinion here. Im now leaning towards fold. You have an overpair but with the MP1's preflop raise, and then reraise on the flop Fletch is correct... higher PP is definately possible. My bad. LOL! I think that I was focusing on another hand while originally replying to this topic... *smacks forehead*. 
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#12
10-12-2005, 01:35 PM
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Re: $27 JJ hand again
4x can mean any number of hands @ the 27s, especially in L1.
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#13
10-12-2005, 01:37 PM
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Re: $27 JJ hand again
Ok, well certainly you have to factor that in which is what I did yesterday in a similar situation. Gave too much credit both times, no big pair.
BB flopped 2 w/ 94o in this hand.
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#14
10-12-2005, 02:19 PM
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Re: $27 JJ hand again
That's one of the reasons you should raise good pairs preflop: drive out random flops where you can go broke against junk. (See "reverse implied odds" if you want the theory.)
The other reason is to clarify your hand, so it's much easier to make this sort of decision on the flop. The other reason is to drive out as many overcards as possible with a strong but vulnerable hand. The other reason is to create a strong table image. The other reason is that shallow stacks create low set value. I guess that's enough. Lecture over. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#15
10-13-2005, 01:13 AM
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Re: $27 JJ hand again
Actually I got this a bit wrong. MP1 did raise PF but it was the BB who bet small on the flop (with his 2 pr as it turns out). MP1 raised which I think supports him having a big PP so I wouldn't have felt good about my JJ's.
Did MP1 show his hand?
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#16
10-13-2005, 03:57 AM
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Re: $27 JJ hand again
[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (t330) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Come on guys. The flop is t330. BB makes a weak bet. MP1 makes, IMO, an even weaker bet. If you have a higher pair here, are you raising to 1/2 pot, giving a flush draw odds to call? I know we shouldn't think that others play as we do, but I don't think our read should instantly be an overpair at this stage. This is truly a strange hand. I'm not sure how I'd play. The main reason I don't like pushing here is because I know my skill is way over the field. Why not raise?
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#17
10-13-2005, 04:14 AM
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Re: $27 JJ hand again
Why would you say an overpair? That is the last thing I'm thinking about.
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#18
10-13-2005, 04:16 AM
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Re: $27 JJ hand again
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you say an overpair? That is the last thing I'm thinking about. [/ QUOTE ] Well, let's take a step backwards. Villain makes a 4xBB raise. What hand range do you put him on?
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#19
10-13-2005, 07:45 AM
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Re: $27 JJ hand again
Am I the only one who would have made it T240 to go PF? That would let me know where the PF raiser was, I think. If he reraises, I'm done--no harm, no foul. This early, this raise isn't enough to keep the blinds from coming in at a discount, and JJ just doesn't play well at all multiplayer. Plus, by reraising, I probably will have position for the rest of the hand.
However, as it stands now, I'm out. Let them play it. It's too early for this kind of gambling. This kind of hand often sends people home. CJ
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#20
10-15-2005, 10:14 AM
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Re: $27 JJ hand again
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who would have made it T240 to go PF? That would let me know where the PF raiser was, I think. If he reraises, I'm done--no harm, no foul. This early, this raise isn't enough to keep the blinds from coming in at a discount, and JJ just doesn't play well at all multiplayer. Plus, by reraising, I probably will have position for the rest of the hand. However, as it stands now, I'm out. Let them play it. It's too early for this kind of gambling. This kind of hand often sends people home. CJ [/ QUOTE ] There's still one flaw in this strategy. Many players play AK like the nuts, and can move in with it. I still like the preflop call, and having more callers in the hand, make it more difficult for AK to move forward if he whiffs. Anyhow, this is certainly an ok fold in my book. I just have a very hard time with that bet. That being said, I can't tell you how often I played a hand aggressively with JJ and was called to the river (with no overcards) by KK. I'm still not certain what is the best play.
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