Help me drop out of school (resume, job search question)

[blackize]

Oh another thing, you could take a couple interviews and ask the interviewer(hopefully he seems experienced) how they viewed that particular part of your resume and how they would view it if you left it off or put it on whichever you don't go with.

[Nightwish]

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I do realize that there may be a time when I feel like going back to law school would be a good idea although it doesn't seem like it at the time. Before leaving school I would at least make sure that I would be able to reapply in the future without any hit to my GPA from incomplete classes or whatever. Having started before would make it harder to be readmitted but I'm fairly sure I'd be able to get in again. I should also point out that I wouldn't just drop out and start looking for a job, I plan on continuing to work on school and just look for jobs in the mean time.


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OK, so at least you're not planning on dropping everything right now. I guess it doesn't hurt to look for jobs and stay in school while you decide what to do. Perhaps you should be getting an MBA or a JD/MBA instead of just a JD?

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I see that you don't think poker in a resume is a good idea, do you think it's better than putting nothing at all?


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I think putting poker on the resume has a huge potential downside, but your problem is that you have a 1.5 year gap. Still, I would be leaning towards putting nothing at all. If asked during the interview, just tell them that you were planning to go to law school the following year, so you took some time off to travel and supported yourself by playing poker. This is the kind of thing that would come across better when said in person as opposed to when put down in writing on a resume. It's also not too uncommon to take time off after getting an undergrad degree if one has already been admitted to grad school.

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If you don't mind me asking, what do you do/what advanced degrees do you have? I'm not asking to challenge you or anything, I'm just curious.

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I have a Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering.

[Isura]

Consider doing some sort of 1-year professional master's program in engineering. These types of programs give you more management and professional training, and you won't have to start your job at an entry-level technical position.

[Solitare]

Some of this may repeat from other posts. My background: EE undergrad and MBA, most recently worked over a decade at Intel in marketing.

1. You should absolutely put your law school stint on your resume. DO NOT try to lie or cover up your background on your resume. Companies have ways of checking on your background. And a false resume can be used in the future as grounds for immediate termination (a popular method of companies getting rid of employees they don't want). Tell the truth.

2. No gaps in the resume. If there is a gap you will be asked to explain it anyway.

3. On describing your poker playing on the resume, don't try to be cute with psuedo business jargon. Describe it simply. Self Employed - Professional Poker Player is a good place to start, since that is what you were. Please don't do something silly like the "calculated mathematical expectation of wagers" bullet. Deal in facts and accomplishments. How much did you make per month. What was your ROI or winrate in BB/100 (and how that compares to what a typical winning players does.) What levels did you progress at and how fast did it take. You want to show that you were a success in your chosen profession. Be prepared to provide further detail in the interview. You will want to portray the effort it took you (books, research on 2+2, using tools like pokertracker) to become a successful professional and how you will apply similar effort to become successful in your next career.

4. I'm not a fan of cover letters, they were the first thing I threw in the garbage when screening candidates. Cover letter should be short, to the point, and with the sole goal to get the person looking at your resume as quick as possible. By no means should the cover letter draw focus on any potential weaknesses or questionable things. So nothing about the poker or law school in the cover letter.

Don't worry. Employers looking at new hires out of college are used to kids taking time to find themselves. Some may think poker was a better way to spend your time than the Peace Corps or something similar.

Just don't appear weak or ashamed. Be upfront and truthful. And if you were able to live off of poker for over a year, that should be portrayed strongly and positively, given the difficulty of achieving that success and that so few people are capable of doing that.

[mantasm]

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OK, so at least you're not planning on dropping everything right now. I guess it doesn't hurt to look for jobs and stay in school while you decide what to do. Perhaps you should be getting an MBA or a JD/MBA instead of just a JD?

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I think an MBA would be a good idea, and it's something I considered while in undergrad. It is something you need work experience to be admitted to and for it to do any good in job prospects.


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I think putting poker on the resume has a huge potential downside, but your problem is that you have a 1.5 year gap. Still, I would be leaning towards putting nothing at all. If asked during the interview, just tell them that you were planning to go to law school the following year, so you took some time off to travel and supported yourself by playing poker. This is the kind of thing that would come across better when said in person as opposed to when put down in writing on a resume. It's also not too uncommon to take time off after getting an undergrad degree if one has already been admitted to grad school.


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This sounds good and would be completely honest. I think I'll start out sending out resumes without the poker listing. I may include it if I see a job at a company that might look favorably on it. (For example I saw a job for a securities trader that sounded pretty much like online multitabling. Not that I really know what a securities trader does.) Thanks for your help.

[Guthrie]

Join the Army.

[mantasm]

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3. On describing your poker playing on the resume, don't try to be cute with psuedo business jargon. Describe it simply. Self Employed - Professional Poker Player is a good place to start, since that is what you were. Please don't do something silly like the "calculated mathematical expectation of wagers" bullet. Deal in facts and accomplishments. How much did you make per month. What was your ROI or winrate in BB/100 (and how that compares to what a typical winning players does.) What levels did you progress at and how fast did it take. You want to show that you were a success in your chosen profession. Be prepared to provide further detail in the interview. You will want to portray the effort it took you (books, research on 2+2, using tools like pokertracker) to become a successful professional and how you will apply similar effort to become successful in your next career.

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Thanks for the advice.

Yeah the examples I provided weren't the best. My concern was trying to put it in terms that people who don't play could understand. If a resume told someone i made x.xBB/100 would anyone understand it? Or moved from $100/200 - $4000/8000 (nto really)? Putting in hard data that demonstrates I was a success is a good idea, but I want them to understand it. Maybe something like progressed from an average hourly earn of $x - $y?

I'd also like to include things that show that poker is mathematical and analytical and not just a stupid game without sounding jargony or silly. I can't figure out a good way to put it though.

[mattw]

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Yeah the examples I provided weren't the best. My concern was trying to put it in terms that people who don't play could understand. If a resume told someone i made x.xBB/100 would anyone understand it? Or moved from $100/200 - $4000/8000 (nto really)? Putting in hard data that demonstrates I was a success is a good idea, but I want them to understand it. Maybe something like progressed from an average hourly earn of $x - $y?

I'd also like to include things that show that poker is mathematical and analytical and not just a stupid game without sounding jargony or silly. I can't figure out a good way to put it though.

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i agree that trying to describe poker for what it is is difficult. the employer will either "get it" or not. the ones that do "get it" are the ones you want to work for. the ones that dont "get it", well, i would not want to work for them.

[Maddenboy]

Being a lawyer mostly sucks.

I've done tax, criminal prosecution, criminal defense, family law, big firm litigation, small firm litigation, and a year-and-a-half of "door law" (whatever walks in the door).

I find that the only lawyers I have ever known who like what they do are Intellectual Property attorneys (they get to be involved in science regularly, and there's always new, cutting edge tech and, accordingly, legal theories and decisions), Criminal (both sides - but you have to be a true believer in your side, not just in it for a job), and public interest lawyers (ugh).

Consider, if UT allows, a leave-of-absence instead of dropping out. May be tough to get back in anywhere if you drop out.

As an engineer, you have the background for IP. Go to the guidance office and ask to be put in contact with some alums who are both doing IP and have an EE (or similar) background.

I wish almost every day that I hadnt gone to law school. I went for the wrong reasons (not sure what I really wanted to do, and its a supposedly versatile degree). I loved criminal prosecution, but other than that, its mostly sucked.

Good luck.

[Solitare]

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Yeah the examples I provided weren't the best. My concern was trying to put it in terms that people who don't play could understand. If a resume told someone i made x.xBB/100 would anyone understand it? Or moved from $100/200 - $4000/8000 (nto really)? Putting in hard data that demonstrates I was a success is a good idea, but I want them to understand it. Maybe something like progressed from an average hourly earn of $x - $y?


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How about something like this (detailes faked and probably not consistent):

SELF EMPLOYED, PROFESSIONAL INTERNET POKER PLAYER, 2004-2005
- Achieved an average earning rate of $7000/month over the last three months.
- Progressed from $1/$2 limit hold'em games to $10/20 limit over the year and a half I played.
- Achieved a win rate of 1.3BB/100 (big bets per 100 hands) over the last three months. At the limits I played at, 1.0BB/100 is considered an exceptional win rate (90th percentile)
- Improved my game by taking full advantage of the analysis tools available to poker professionals -- Poker Trakcer, Poker Stove, PokerAce HUD.

The goals being (which you should be aware of for each bullet on your resume):
- Show your results a professional and how much you made. Try to show that this was not some waste of idle time but your means of putting bread on the table. If you were a salesman, your first bullet would probably talk about your sales volume.
- Show that you applied your self and improved over time. Similar to bragging about promotions in another job.
- Show how you compare to the competition. BB/100 is like the SAT score of poker. It does require some explaination, but it show you are serious, are aware of your competition, and where you stand against your competition.
- Show that you used available tools to analyze and improve your game. You are an engineer, part of the job description is to utilize tools to solve problems.

Obviously, if you were an SNG player, the bullets would change accordinliy (ROI vs. BB/100). If you were a big tourny player, you would talk about final tables and big cashes.