AI early with AA. Was this very fishy? Please comment.

Janaka · #1 10-07-2005, 09:36 AM

I have several doubts:
1. Should I maybe have raised more? The truth is I wanted some action but not plenty of callers.
2.When villain made his overbet on the flop into me: would you fold there? I had no reads on him. I thought he maybe was bluffing or semi bluffing me with a flush draw.
3.Would you just call the big bet on the flop instead of raising AI?
4. Would you mini raise or raise him to see where you are in the flop? I thought that if he was reraising me, anyway I was commited to the pot.

Please forgive my English and my fishiness, but I cannot see
clearly if I should have made the big laydown, call or raised?

Thanks very much indeed.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 (t1230)
MP3 (t830)
CO (t525)
Button (t2095)
SB (t1005)
BB (t980)
UTG (t2260)
UTG+1 (t1340)
Hero (t980)
MP1 (t995)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, Hero raises to t75, 3 folds, CO calls t75, Button calls t75, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls t45.

Flop: (t345) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets t350, Hero raises to t905 (All-In), CO folds, Button folds, UTG+1 calls t555.

Turn: (t2155) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2155) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2155

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has 2d 2s (full house, twos full of sevens).
Hero has As Ad (two pair, aces and sevens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins t2155.

jcm4ccc · #2 10-07-2005, 09:46 AM

The preflop raise was pretty bad (you almost certainly had one caller with UTG+1--at most, you would want one other caller). There are other ways to play your aces then the standard raise, but what was essentially a min-raise is not the way to go.

The flop bet was standard. You're not going to fold your aces to this kind of bet and on this kind of flop, and you certainly don't want to give odds to the two players behind you to call with a flush draw. So all-in on the flop is really your only choice, I think. Bad luck to run into a set.

So your play wasn't that fishy. Just a poor preflop raise on a hand that you were probably going to lose all of your chips anyway. What is fishy about your post are your questions #3 and #4, which are terrible options for playing this flop--you should have been able to dismiss those options immediately without giving them much thought.

Koss · #3 10-07-2005, 09:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have several doubts:
1. Should I maybe have raised more? The truth is I wanted some action but not plenty of callers.
2.When villain made his overbet on the flop into me: would you fold there? I had no reads on him. I thought he maybe was bluffing or semi bluffing me with a flush draw.
3.Would you just call the big bet on the flop instead of raising AI?
4. Would you mini raise or raise him to see where you are in the flop? I thought that if he was reraising me, anyway I was commited to the pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

What buy in tournament is this? That will alter my decision a bit. But I'll just assume it's $20 or less.

1. Early on, I definitely raise more. It probably doesn't change the outcome of the hand, but you'll get more money in the pot as a favorite. I raise to 100-150 here.

2. Folding is weak. Your hand is very strong. You are either way behind to a set or have any other hands drawing slim. It's rare that I would make this fold, because normally he's leading into you with KJ or some other holding.

3. Call, nah. You'll just be forced with the same tough decision on the turn with nothing really new to go on.

4. A min-raise leaves you with almost 3/4 of your stack in the pot. You'll be getting like a crapton-1 on a call, min-raising then folding would just be ridiculous.

Not a fishy played hand at all, aside from the weak pre-flop raise. That early in a tournament people are going to play. Would you rather raise to $75 and 4 callers or raise to $150 and get two? You'll get action early on, so make them pay to try and draw out. Unless the flop looks extremely dangerous, you simply can't fold AA. You can second guess yourself all day about the guys overbet, but unless you can know for sure that it means set, then you have to push all in on the flop.

betgo · #4 10-07-2005, 10:09 AM

I don't think you can get away from this on the flop. You could have flat called instead of pushed, but you were concerned about the flush draw. In any case, the money isn't deep enough to fold.

2nd position limps for 30 and you raise to 75. I know you want to make sure you get called. Play is loose at this stage and you got 3 callers. I would raise to 90-150. In this case 22 would probably still call and bust you.

If you think a raise is likely, you could also limp. People might not give a second limper credit for a big pair.

jcm4ccc · #5 10-07-2005, 10:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you think a raise is likely, you could also limp. People might not give a second limper credit for a big pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Limping is dangerous for the average player, in the event that there is not a preflop raise from someone to follow. For an average player, I would definitely recommend not being too greedy with my aces and just make a solid preflop riase.

Janaka · #6 10-07-2005, 10:59 AM

Thanks indeed for the answers.

I now see that, even if I would also have been called by the guy who flopped the set, I should have raised more. I have very little tournament experience and I was fearfull to loose customers, but definitely my raise was too small.

Yes, given the deep of stacks and the possible draws, questions 3 and 4 are not good questions.

Thanks and have a nice day