Two AJ hands versus overbets

[ericlambi]

Both hands are $50NL 6max on PP.

Hand 1:

I'm on the button with $50, new to table. Dealt AJo. All fold to the CO who limps, I raise to $2.5. SB folds, BB calls, CO calls. Flop is J52r. BB bets out all-in for $35. CO folds.

What do you do?

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Hand 2:

I'm in CO with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. 2 limpers, I raise to $3. Button calls, one limper calls, the other folds. Flop comes

J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Two players check. I bet pot (~$10). Button calls, limpers fold. The button had already stacked me off once when he made a big flop call and a big turn call fishing for a flush against my AA -- I called his river bet in that instance getting 4-1, but probably should have folded. Turn comes

8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, getting ready to give up the hand, and he checks quickly behind. River comes

J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check, planning to call what I expect to be a reasonable bet, but he goes all-in. He has me covered (with my own money from the previous altercation) so it's $45 to me to win a $30 pot.

What do I do?

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[wdeadwyler]

You said villain gave you 4-1 on your call before when he had the flush. Is it possible he bets small when he is strong and big when he is weak (as is the case for most fish). If you think this is likely I may find a call here. If I call I take a note on what he as and use it against him later.

[nuSFwck]

i probably fold and wait for better spots for morons to open push.

you don't have all that much $ invested in either hand (esp. hand 1), so fold and be patient. if these guys are so interested in giving their money away with drastic overbets, wait til you can take it from them.

TPTK is not good enough in the first hand (you got like $3 in there), and you can't beat a flush in hand 2. be patient, they'll give you their money eventually.

[amoeba]

I think it was an all in that just happened to be 4-1.

[mudbuddha]

the 1st hand i fold until i get a better read on the guy...
i really dont understand the push so.. i tend to let them take my 3 bucsk until i find a reason to think that hes a complete fish..

the 2nd.. why didnt you bet on the turn/riv?? by playing your TPTK so passively and fearing the flush so much that you look like you missed your hand completely, a wide range bluffs you on the riv...

i hate huge over bets..

[ericlambi]

The 4-1 was just an artefact of our stack sizes at that point. He was all-in with his flush. This was still early in my session, he continued these sorts of overbets with some regularity. I felt when he did it he probably had made his hand . . . at one point I said to myself that he must be going in every time that a 3 flush is on the board and getting everyone to fold out of fear, but as soon as I said that to myself he got called down and showed the flush.

I folded my hand vs. him . . . wasn't going to give him a full stack twice. He's on my buddy list now. He can't keep getting his his flushes forever, and he certainly will put in a lot of chips going for it. If I play him again, I will probably start betting 1.25-1.5x flop on 2-flush flops. He will call if he has the 4 flush. Actually, he'll probably call if he has anything at all.

[ericlambi]

You are probably right . . . should have bet the turn and folded to a raise. I felt certain at the time he had hit his flush. Based on other hands I saw him show down, it seems he plays any two suited cards, even in raised pots. So I feel I was probably right, but who knows.

Like I said earlier, I folded hand #2. I called hand #1 . . . villain showed 55 for a set. I don't know why he bet it this way, but I'm a moron for calling.