Canterbury 8/16, Preflop question

[BigEndian]

The odds implied by more people going further with their hands because the pot is bigger? Sure.

- Jim

[bakku]

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I'm not entirely sure I understand your question.

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Let me phrase it this way. Postflop, we're talking about a pot of 8sb v 14. When you consider the implied odds, isn't the latter better?

Sure there's a tradeoff, like trying to protect your hand if you whiff, but that seems like a challenge anyway with 8 in the pot.

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hey scuba, you need to remember your implied odds are cut in half when there is a raise PF because you're putting in two bets instead of one.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Some CP 8/16 games play pretty crazy. If one player behind him has a hand worth three-betting, there's about a 75% chance that some joker with 89s will make it 4, and the guy to his left, playing A-rag soooted, will cap it. They love them big-ass pots, playing 8/16 with $2 yellows.

[elindauer]

All this talk about needing to improve to win is nonsense. 99 is a big enough pair to hold up unimproved that, when combined with the huge value you get from sets and the occassional flop free card that turns a set... easy raise for value.

Look at it this way. Instead of the 99, you are one of the random limpers who are in there with garbage. What do they want you to do? They want you to limp. They pray you will not punish their poor hand selection by raising with what is a near lock for the best hand right now. Do what they don't want you to do. Raise.

my 2 cents.
Eric

[elindauer]

Hi Deranged,

I basically agree that raising just for set value with a hand like 22 is rare. Have you considered the possibility though that 1 extra SB may generate a huge amount of extra postflop action should you get lucky enough to flop a set?

For example, let's say that you were getting 6:1 preflop, but knew that your opponents were the type to play very aggressively in big pots, and that a set would get much more action in the raised pot. How do you feel about a raise now? You'd be giving up a little immediately, not quite getting odds for a set, but your sets might make that up and then some.

Food for thought.
Eric

[dcarlc]

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All this talk about needing to improve to win is nonsense. 99 is a big enough pair to hold up unimproved that, when combined with the huge value you get from sets and the occassional flop free card that turns a set... easy raise for value.

Look at it this way. Instead of the 99, you are one of the random limpers who are in there with garbage. What do they want you to do? They want you to limp. They pray you will not punish their poor hand selection by raising with what is a near lock for the best hand right now. Do what they don't want you to do. Raise.

my 2 cents.
Eric

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[dcarlc]

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Some CP 8/16 games play pretty crazy. If one player behind him has a hand worth three-betting, there's about a 75% chance that some joker with 89s will make it 4, and the guy to his left, playing A-rag soooted, will cap it. They love them big-ass pots, playing 8/16 with $2 yellows.

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I did think about this. The button in this hand 100% will 3 bet this hand with any 2 broadway cards,

[Alex/Mugaaz]

Raise this up. First of all you said you're getting 7 callers no matter what, if you were playing ONLY for set value this play would be very ev neutral.

You obviously raise for equity, but also because you do flop a set now everyone will stick around to the turn, and most will stay till the river, earning you many, many more bets.

[EgoSlasher]

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Ego, this is a commonly known tactic. It is also used as a contributing argument for a raise along with a the fact that a hand such as a small to mid pair already has good value in a lot of situations before the flop. It's a play worth putting in your playbook.

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While you do have odds to raise for set value, your overall equity to win the hand is a small edge at best. Raising also means it's going to be harder to protect your hand if you flop an OP. The combination of thse two things makes a limp more profitable. You're going to flop an OP a lot more often than you're going to flop a set and you want to be able to protect your hand against overcards on the flop.

[baronzeus]

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I'm not entirely sure I understand your question.

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Let me phrase it this way. Postflop, we're talking about a pot of 8sb v 14. When you consider the implied odds, isn't the latter better?

Sure there's a tradeoff, like trying to protect your hand if you whiff, but that seems like a challenge anyway with 8 in the pot.

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hey scuba, you need to remember your implied odds are cut in half when there is a raise PF because you're putting in two bets instead of one.

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your implied odds might be more but people will chase things like "5 outers" (which are really 0 outers) and lone "3 outers" (naked aces and kings) because they now have the "pot odds." but what they are really doing is just feeding you money. which is good.