Limping QQ under the gun

TheWorstPlayer · #1 10-04-2005, 12:11 AM

Obviously it can be right. If people don't see how it can be right, they fundamentally do not understand poker. Especially deep stack poker.

whittiphil · #2 10-04-2005, 12:19 AM

well... I want you to explain it to me TWP, because maybe I don't get it.

The *only* reason I think you should limp is for reraise preflop value, or set value. Is there another reason?

TheWorstPlayer · #3 10-04-2005, 12:38 AM

The main reason is position and pot control. If you're playing OOP against tough opponents with deep stacks you don't really want to play a big pot with just one pair. So you can limp QQ and then try to play a small pot if you flop an overpair or a big one if you flop a set. Seems reasonable to me. I'm not saying I wouldn't raise it, because of course I would, but I am saying that I may also limp it. No reason not to. I don't think you give up a lot by not raising it preflop and if you gain something postflop it is almost certainly worth it.

akishore · #4 10-04-2005, 12:48 AM

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The main reason is position and pot control. If you're playing OOP against tough opponents with deep stacks you don't really want to play a big pot with just one pair. So you can limp QQ and then try to play a small pot if you flop an overpair or a big one if you flop a set.

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Yes, this sums up basically everything I've been trying to say.

I really have a problem with brevity, can you tell? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I'm not saying I wouldn't raise it, because of course I would

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This made me laugh. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Aseem

whittiphil · #5 10-04-2005, 02:37 AM

Thanks, this is good reasoning

NaobisDad · #6 10-04-2005, 04:51 AM

I remember back in the day in the UB games raising anything other than AA / KK UTG could get you in a lot of trouble. Admittedly the stacks were only 100BB, but the texture of the game just made raising QQ or JJ from EP really unfavorable.

akishore · #7 10-04-2005, 04:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I remember back in the day in the UB games raising anything other than AA / KK UTG could get you in a lot of trouble. Admittedly the stacks were only 100BB, but the texture of the game just made raising QQ or JJ from EP really unfavorable.

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Can you elaborate on what texture those games had?

Aseem

NaobisDad · #8 10-04-2005, 05:05 AM

the games were really tight. Lot of nutpeddlers. Now, initially this sounds like a game in which you want to be raising anything from any position, but there is another condition.

I was/am a beginning player. And to LAG it up against very carefull opponents you need a great ounce of skill, and a great ounce of not getting married to your pairs.

For that reason I kept myself out of trickey situations. For example, if I know I'm only going to get called by hands I'm a small favorite or a big dogg against in these games I'm going to refrain from building a big pot with hands that are quite vulnurable, such as QQ or JJ. Escpecially in these games they were hands with which I stood to win a little or lose a whole lot.

So the perfect situation for limping my QQ and JJ UTG was not due to table texture alone, but also had a great deal to do with my own overall skill, or lack thereof.

The reason I thought the texture of the game influenced my decision was as followed: if I raise that QQ UTG, and (apart from me flopping a set) I get action on the hand beyond the flop, more often that not I have to let the hand go. And if this was the case, I might as well have been raising with 72o in that position. Because if it were to come to a showdown with these players I would by far more oftne be looking at a better hand than mine rather than a worse one.