Untypical KK hand

tricolore · #1 10-03-2005, 12:22 PM

Live game, 1-2 NL

Hero: ($400)
MP1: Agressive player, somewhat loose ( $200 )
MP2: Not very agressive, loose ( $75 )

I am not at the table when the cards are dealt and come back after the flop, as MP1 is betting. Since I am the
BB and that there was no raise my cards are still live.

6 to the flop ($13)

Flop is [7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]

Hero looks at his cards [ K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ]

MP1 bets 18$. MP2 calls $18. 3 folds. Hero raises to 45$. MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

3 to the turn (148$).

Turn is [ 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ]

Hero?

wdeadwyler · #2 10-03-2005, 12:31 PM

open fold, seriously if they check to u check behind, if they bet, fold, you are done with this hand

tricolore · #3 10-03-2005, 02:17 PM

Even though the turn missed the straight and flush draws, you check/fold?

Trips obivously become a much bigger threat here but we can asumme that MP2 is on a draw and since MP1 it LAG, his betting pattern can mean anything from simple draws to trips. But with the draws on the board the fact that he didn't reraise on the flop to get MP2 out of the action hints toward the fact that he his drawing himself, no?

Ojo_Rojo · #4 10-03-2005, 02:39 PM

I dont see how you can put both players on draws - sometimes they will be, but chances are youre behind already, imo. This is a clear check-fold.

Ojo_Rojo

tricolore · #5 10-03-2005, 03:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I dont see how you can put both players on draws - sometimes they will be, but chances are youre behind already, imo. This is a clear check-fold.

Ojo_Rojo

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously can't be sure they are on a draw and even if they are that they don't also hold top pair, but it made sense at the time since:

MP1: After betting, being called and raised, he simply calls. By doing so, he gives the odds for MP2 to call if he's on a draw. If he had a two paris/trips, wouldn't he be reraising?

MP2: He called the first bet and the raise. With 2 draws on the board, I don't see how he can simply call both times if he's not on a draw.

So in my mind on the turn it came down to figure out if one of them actually had a 9(maybe with a draw).

It's also sure that MP1 (LAG) is betting if we check, so the decision is pretty much all-in or fold.

#6 10-03-2005, 03:18 PM

Shouldnt the dealer have mucked your hand when you werent there to option your BB? Every casino Ive been thats what happens...

Ojo_Rojo · #7 10-03-2005, 03:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MP1: After betting, being called and raised, he simply calls. By doing so, he gives the odds for MP2 to call if he's on a draw. If he had a two paris/trips, wouldn't he be reraising?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im certainly worried more about MP1 than MP2... but dont assume that he will play like he should, or you would if you were in his boots.

However your points maybe valid, and if you put both players correctly on draws here, then youre a better hand reader than I, which isnt difficult... but I would still give up on the turn. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Ojo_Rojo

tricolore · #8 10-03-2005, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shouldnt the dealer have mucked your hand when you werent there to option your BB? Every casino Ive been thats what happens...

[/ QUOTE ]

It was at a card room in NYC --- but I agree, it's unsual.

The problem really stems from there --- obviously if I raise the hand PF the post flop play is much easier.

I decided to post b/c MP1 and MP2 can hold any two and therefore I thought the analysis would a bit more complicated than the usual overpair hand --- but it's apparently not.

Thanks for the answers --- I took me about 4-5 minutes to decide what to do at the time.