I play this one passively

private joker · #1 10-02-2005, 07:01 PM

Villain is a total rock -- 10/2.5/1 after about 70 hands. Just checking to make sure this is standard; I have doubts sometimes.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $5.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 5 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.20 BB

MyTurn2Raise · #2 10-02-2005, 07:02 PM

With a total rock, this looks spot on

toss · #3 10-02-2005, 07:06 PM

I'm trying to think of a hand range you beat. AA, KK, QQ, JJ probably makes up his 2.5 pfr so he doesn't have that unless he likes limping them UTG. 99 he beats you. He'll probably limp AK, AQ which beats you. He's unlikely to bluff the river with something like KQs. I only see QQ or JJ as the closest possibility.

#4 10-02-2005, 07:11 PM

If I'm looking at:
Slow-played set of 10s;
Someone looking for c/r when he caught the A;
A possible flush;
Or even a boat;
and I'm up against a rock? I start praying for my pairs.

I'm guessing you didn't win this one?

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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Nick C · #5 10-02-2005, 07:14 PM

Hmm. The board's kind of drawy, and I think generally you'd like to bet the turn versus this guy if he has, say, QJs or KJ. (He's not checkraise semi-bluffing much, is he?) Here's another question: If he has a draw, how often will he fire on the river if he misses? (Since we haven't really seen him playing very many hands, I guess we don't know, with much certainty.)

By checking, you may increase your chances of getting paid off by, say, 88, either when Villain check-calls the river or when he bets after your show of weakness. It's possible he'll check-fold anyway, though, and when he plans to do that, you'd be better off just betting the turn and not giving him a free shot at his two outs.

Ugh. I don't know. Tricky spot. Your line seems all right to me.

imported_PP123 · #6 10-02-2005, 07:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (4.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't get it. If you're planning to call a bet on the river anyway, why not do the betting yourself on the turn as the last money you put in the pot?

brettbrettr · #7 10-02-2005, 08:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With a total rock, this looks spot on

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the opposite. He's not c/r'ing the turn with anything that you beat and he might call with something you do.

W. Deranged · #8 10-02-2005, 08:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With a total rock, this looks spot on

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the opposite. He's not c/r'ing the turn with anything that you beat and he might call with something you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I can't see how it is to our advantage to decide that the river is the place to put money in here. How often does a total rock value bet a hand worse than KK on the river here? It would seem like quite rarely.

I would think the viable lines are bet-fold turn and probably check-behind the river, or, alternately, check behind the turn and fold to a river bet. I think that this line basically opens hero up to getting owned, since you've basically allowed the rock to play totally on his own terms. If the rock has a draw or something, you might get a turn call from a worse hand, but you are never getting check-raised by a hand you're beating and I also think you're almost never inducing a bluff.

So: bet-fold turn, check behind river.

pokolle · #9 10-02-2005, 08:08 PM

If he has an A wouldnt he just call down and bett the river? I play 3/6, so I dont know the standard here, but I wouldnt checkraise an A in this spot if i was the villain. I suppose you have to call a bet on the river, so how does that weight up to checking the turn and giving a freecard?

private joker · #10 10-02-2005, 08:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]

So: bet-fold turn, check behind river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. After thinking about this some more, this is a much better line. He's not going to bluff-checkraise the turn, so I can safely fold.

Results: Amazingly, he bluff-bet the river with 87s, a whiffed OESD. I failed to charge him a bet on the turn, but at least he gave it to me on the river. Shows you how much you can rely on 'rock' stats, I guess.

Next time I'll take a bet/fold line on the turn and check the river.