99 hand, need suggestions on most every street

Augster · #1 09-30-2005, 11:15 PM

I have no read on the villian except that he had only been there a bit and hadn't shown anything down yet. So at this table, that might actually make him reasonable.

The other players in the hand are total donks that literally play any 2 and will cold-call a raise on any street with Ace-high or any draw or part of the board.

I tried to isolate on the flop. Didn't exactly work out, as you'll see.

Are there any better lines? Anywhere really.

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 3-bets, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (18 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 20 BB

I guess I really didn't notice at the table that it was kind of a double check-raise. I did it, then MP1 did it.

Where do you find a fold, or do you just call down?

I have seen this sort of thing with two-suited on the board before as most players on this table, hell, this level, will push the flop action to the cap to make their flush draw "correct" on the next two streets.

I didn't fold due to Miller's, "Don't fold in a big pot to one bet even when you know you are beat". The additional overs and the flush draw hitting on the turn should have told me to save a few bets in this case I think.

Comments?

Any help is appreciated.

sean c · #2 09-30-2005, 11:35 PM

It was discussed earlier in the SS forum but i don't like the pre flop raise. You are completely out of position there are only five people in the hand(7.5:1 to hit your set) sure implied odds may make up the difference but there will also be times when you flop a set and still lose mixed in with the times you win unimproved but whatever. Being out of position swings this to a limp for me.

gharp · #3 09-30-2005, 11:41 PM

Preflop is fine but you should be betting the flop. You can't count on someone else betting it for you. If MP-whoever raises, I'd call, then call on the turn (you picked up flush outs to go with your set outs, which will almost be enough).

Tough to say what's right on the river, since it's not clear what the action would be if you had bet the flop. But the pot will be pretty huge regardless, so you don't have to be right too often to make calling correct.

Augster · #4 10-01-2005, 12:00 AM

I suppose I could have bet the flop as I was the PFR. If I had AA I doubt I would be trying a C/R, so I think you are correct there.

I know raising 99 is close from the BB. How many would you need to raise 99 from there limped in? 6 or 7? We raise TT there every time though, right?

Thanks for the help.

gharp · #5 10-01-2005, 12:21 AM

I'm raising 99 (and maybe even 88) with any number of loose limpers. Definitely TT+.

GTSamIAm · #6 10-01-2005, 12:38 AM

I'd muck to the first bet on the flop. Not only did someone not on the button bet, but someone else called after him. You are in a many-handed pot with people yet to act, and you are easily either behind or outdrawn.

TomBrooks · #7 10-01-2005, 12:42 AM

PF: I'm not a big fan or raising 99 OOP in the blinds after a lot of limpers unless it's to go for set value. I can dig if your intention is to check/fold the flop unless you have an overpair or make a set. But thats it.

FLOP: This is a fold, not a checkraise. A lot of people play a ten. Your're against five opponents. There's a good chance someone has one. Heads up with an underpair would be a different story. Then you bet.

Even if no one had a ten, there are four other overcards to your nine and if anyone stays in with them and they come in your toast. There are two hearts on the flop and any flush draw is about even money to make his hand by the river. You run the risk of getting three bet by the raiser or the less common (but what actually happened here) risk of getting check-reraised.

After the check reraise, you now have odds to call to hit a set so maybe you can call with the intention of folding and cutting your losses on the turn if you don't improve. Your set card cannot be a heart so that helps.

TURN: Flush draw came in, MP1 still likes his hand. Your nines are not likely to be best. Even if the flush came in, your nine may not be the best flush. Cut your losses.

thegoose420 · #8 10-01-2005, 12:53 AM

there's no way im raising anything less than TT in th SB with this many players

Augster · #9 10-01-2005, 01:05 AM

Thanks for the help. A LOT!

I was going through my HH from last night and saw this and thought, "What the [censored] am I doing???" With the cold hard HH looking at me instead of the heat of the moment, this hand just made me cringe.

I may have to go back to 2 tables instead of 3 on Paradise with debauchery like this.

MP1 had pocket 3's and flopped trips. All his plays made sense. Mine really didn't.

Time to cruise the HH's and find more leaks.