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#12
09-24-2003, 04:55 PM
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Re: Slow Playing
[ QUOTE ]
We didn't get into situations but a good amount of posters believed that you must always raise with A-A [/ QUOTE ] There are several situations where limping with AA is a better play. The most common is in a loose aggressive game in EP when you want to limp-reraise. Other times might include just calling for deception when you are raised in a steal situation against certain types of players, or when you think a LP raise is very likely to take down the blinds. However once two people have willingly put money in the pot it's wrong not to raise AA in just about every situation. [ QUOTE ] example is on the big blind where a raise doesn't thin the field [/ QUOTE ] AA is too strong a hand, and you're giving up more than you can get back postflop in this situation. With QQ or JJ it's a close decision. [ QUOTE ] What is PE III? [/ QUOTE ] Poker Essays III by Mason. There's an article called "Unusual Strategies" that you should read. Also "A8s UTG". 
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#13
09-24-2003, 04:59 PM
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Re: Slow Playing
[ QUOTE ]
1 example is on the big blind where a raise doesn't thin the field. [/ QUOTE ] If I told you that you were going to be dealt AA every single time, what limit would you play at? 5-10 or 10-20? Answer that question then tell me a raise with AA isn't worth it unless you can thin the field.
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#14
09-24-2003, 05:02 PM
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Re: Slow Playing
[ QUOTE ]
When you hold AJ and the flop comes JT6 with 2 hearts, you raise if bet into, no fancy slowplaying, no worrying about looking predictable, raising is the right play in this typical low limit loose passive game 100% of the time. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry I disagree with this statement. This can be mathematically disputed.
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#15
09-24-2003, 05:05 PM
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Re: Slow Playing
[ QUOTE ]
Post the hand. You have my permission. I need to see the hand history to tell you more. If you don't have it, I can look it up on Pokertracker tonight. [/ QUOTE ] I don't have it please be my guest. If I had raised pre-flop would I have gotten your 2 BB on the turn and River?
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#17
09-24-2003, 05:08 PM
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Re: Slow Playing
Sometimes, (usually), the games (low limit) I play in have people who will call with a four flush no MATTER how much you raise/bet!
In this case, if I have say a flopped set on a flush draw flop, and I suspect people are on flush draws, and someone bets to my right, I'll just call the flop and raise the turn, knowing the flush draws will call anyways. I want them to call in this situation. Anyone else play like this? I'm talking about the 3-6 Party tables at certain times/situations where you'll find players that, when it's 3 players on the flop with 2 of them capping, will call to the river with a flush draw. - Tony
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#18
09-24-2003, 05:13 PM
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Re: Slow Playing
Yes, I think doing TOO MUCH slowplaying at low limits on the internet is a mistake over the long run. And if you are at the same table for a long time, and if people are paying attention to how you play, and if they are showing your raises too much respect, then you may need to stop raising some AA hands.
The problem with this question is we are speaking in generalities. So it is difficult to quantify how often you would slow play AA. And it is difficult to figure out how many small bets you lose by not raising, compared to how many large bets you gain by slowplaying. Slowplaying clearly makes sense when you are playing no limit hold em and want to put your opponent all in when you hit aces full on the turn or river. Now the fact that your AA hand is disguised is a HUGE BENEFIT. But in low limit online poker it is not clear anyone is paying attention. Depending on how many callers you would have gotten preflop, you will lose 7 times one small bet preflop. And you will fail to thin the field. And you may make some extra big bets post-flop, but how many and from how many callers? Remember you may also be losing opportunities to 3 bet or cap pre-flop if there are other small pairs out there, especially at a wild low limit table. I think the best we can say in talking generalities, is how frequently would you slowplay AA, if ever, at what limit, at what kind of table, from what position, and against what kind of players. Clearly, if you do slowplay AA, you want to optimize your slowplay return. If you get aces full against a lower full house, and you put in no preflop raise, you may get a lot more action. But how often will that happen? Often enough to offset the lost preflop bets? Very hard to answer such a question.
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#19
09-24-2003, 05:15 PM
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raise w/AA on BB
[ QUOTE ]
...1 example is on the big blind where a raise doesn't thin the field. A check raise on a later street will be more effective and profitable... [/ QUOTE ] Mathematically, at least, you should 2-bet from the BB with AA rather than checking and check raising on later. You have the best hand, you are almost certainly the player most likely to win. More players will pay you off preflop than would on the flop. You'll get less money in check-raising the flop, and the money will be entering the pot when your competition has a better idea of whether their draws will come in, so the number of callers will better correlate to your chance of losing. If your opponents feel sure that the BB raise means you have AA, you may have a point. But aren't there other hands that can justify this raise? And even if there aren't, don't these raises happen in low limit all the time? I've seen hands as low as A-7s raise their own BB in 4-8.
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#20
09-24-2003, 05:15 PM
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Re: Slow Playing
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] We didn't get into situations but a good amount of posters believed that you must always raise with A-A [/ QUOTE ] There are several situations where limping with AA is a better play. The most common is in a loose aggressive game in EP when you want to limp-reraise. Other times might include just calling for deception when you are raised in a steal situation against certain types of players, or when you think a LP raise is very likely to take down the blinds. However once two people have willingly put money in the pot it's wrong not to raise AA in just about every situation. [ QUOTE ] example is on the big blind where a raise doesn't thin the field [/ QUOTE ] AA is too strong a hand, and you're giving up more than you can get back postflop in this situation. With QQ or JJ it's a close decision. [ QUOTE ] What is PE III? [/ QUOTE ] Poker Essays III by Mason. There's an article called "Unusual Strategies" that you should read. Also "A8s UTG". [/ QUOTE ] "Just about every situation." I disagree with in the first answer. The second answer I completely disagree with. The raise with AA is to thin the field getting 2 small bets pre-flop doesn't out weigh the deception. I just need 1 bet on the turn or river and I usually get much more. Icing on the cake is saving money with terrible flops where you know that your aces are cracked. It is much easier to let them go if you invested less.
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