SSH made me 60 bucks!

[silkyslim]

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This is wrong. Hero is clearly not ahead, and raising the flop in EP with bottom pair is pretty bad. When you are drawing to 5 outs in a relatively small pot, you don't really have a hand to protect. My order is fold > call > raise.

Also, raising the flop cuts your implied odds in half. The concept of implied odds centers on getting a lot of bets when you invest only a few. By raising, you are investing twice as much money and winning the same amount if you do hit.


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oh man, did any of you guys even read the book i mentioned in my title??? Get some of your facts straight. If they werent complete donks i would definately like a raise to PROTECT my vulnerable draw (well, the pot would be too small and id fold, but pretend it isnt). yeah, PROTECT. There seems to be a lot of confusion about when, why, and how to do this. the pot is not small, it is 7 bets. for 5 outs i need around 8.5-1. i figured i could make up for the 1.5 small bets because these players are bad and would pay me off. reread SSH plz. il do it too

[Notorious G.O.B.]

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i dont think my hand is best, i was drawing to my 5 outs and i thought 7-1 was good enough with these players who give huge implied odds

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You're not getting 7 to 1 when you put 2 bets into the pot. I respectfully disagree with your play.

[silkyslim]

in SSH Ed Miller says if you are getting ~8-1 you can draw to 2 pair or trips. he then says in some circumstances raising is better than calling. Right, you then cut your odds in half, but you also protect your draw.

[HolyBejeesus]

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This is wrong. Hero is clearly not ahead, and raising the flop in EP with bottom pair is pretty bad. When you are drawing to 5 outs in a relatively small pot, you don't really have a hand to protect. My order is fold > call > raise.

Also, raising the flop cuts your implied odds in half. The concept of implied odds centers on getting a lot of bets when you invest only a few. By raising, you are investing twice as much money and winning the same amount if you do hit.


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oh man, did any of you guys even read the book i mentioned in my title??? Get some of your facts straight. If they werent complete donks i would definately like a raise to PROTECT my vulnerable draw (well, the pot would be too small and id fold, but pretend it isnt). yeah, PROTECT. There seems to be a lot of confusion about when, why, and how to do this. the pot is not small, it is 7 bets. for 5 outs i need around 8.5-1. i figured i could make up for the 1.5 small bets because these players are bad and would pay me off. reread SSH plz. il do it too

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This is going to be my last post in this thread.

You don't need to 'protect your draw,' for two reasons:
1. It is a crappy draw. You barely have odds to continue for 1 bet, and don't have odds to continue for 2.
2. If you hit your draw, you are going to win regardless of whether other opponents fold. You aren't going to fold a hand like K4 that dominates you, especially with this crowd, so you have no reason to raise.

In short: bad play, nice suckout.

[mack848]

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This is wrong. Hero is clearly not ahead, and raising the flop in EP with bottom pair is pretty bad. When you are drawing to 5 outs in a relatively small pot, you don't really have a hand to protect. My order is fold > call > raise.

Also, raising the flop cuts your implied odds in half. The concept of implied odds centers on getting a lot of bets when you invest only a few. By raising, you are investing twice as much money and winning the same amount if you do hit.


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oh man, did any of you guys even read the book i mentioned in my title??? Get some of your facts straight. If they werent complete donks i would definately like a raise to PROTECT my vulnerable draw (well, the pot would be too small and id fold, but pretend it isnt). yeah, PROTECT. There seems to be a lot of confusion about when, why, and how to do this. the pot is not small, it is 7 bets. for 5 outs i need around 8.5-1. i figured i could make up for the 1.5 small bets because these players are bad and would pay me off. reread SSH plz. il do it too

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I think that your draw is too weak and the pot too small to make raising the correct play.

You have a maximum of five outs and you're investing 2 bets into a 7 bet pot. Unless you are lucky enough to get cold callers, you will not often make up sufficient bets when you hit an out on the turn.

[silkyslim]

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This is going to be my last post in this thread.

You don't need to 'protect your draw,' for two reasons:
1. It is a crappy draw. You barely have odds to continue for 1 bet, and don't have odds to continue for 2.
2. If you hit your draw, you are going to win regardless of whether other opponents fold. You aren't going to fold a hand like K4 that dominates you, especially with this crowd, so you have no reason to raise.

In short: bad play, nice suckout.


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i love the "you are going to win if you hit your draw whether you protect or not" paired with "crappy draw" and "K4 which dominates me" I think calling the flop would be a good read based play. and you still should reread SSH even if you think you are right and then come talk to me

[ArturiusX]

SSH can say whatever it wants, but when the first bettor to act with 5 guys to act in front of him bets out, it pretty much says that you're a dog in this pot.

You're investing 2 sb to try and win 7 sb. Your draw comes in once every eight times. You're essentially forgetting about pot odds. If you get 3-bet, that really sucks.

[astro]

In short: bad play, nice suckout.

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reraising bottom pair against 5 people... that's great man [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]