New to SNG's ... I've got a few questions

[Instinct]

If you have anything to say about any of my questions, I'd appreciate ( I'm gonna cross post in touny's section too )

I have just come off one of my worst 10 days since i've been playing almost 100% online. ( Lost a fair bit but concentration has been bad and been making mistakes ) I've found my swings have been huge playing 15-30 and 10-20 and I just needed a break.

So I decided to break the "grind" and play some SNG's this weekend.
I don't have a lot of experience playing nl but prefer the nl SNG's to the limit ( from when I used to play them at Paradise last yr )
This weekend I played 7 $50 nl at party. I won 2, came 2nd in 1, 3rd in 1, and out of the money in 4. I was quite surprised to see at least 3 or 4 really bad players in most of them.

So I'm wondering if there are players out there that are making decent money playing these SNG's ... what sort of % are some of the better players making as a percentage of the buyin over the long run?
How does the competition fare in $100 and $200 SNG's compared to the $50 ones?
Do I need to worry about collusion in the higher limit SNG's?
Is the competition alot tougher at Stars than at party for these tourny's?

Any other insite from experienced SNG ers would be appreciated as i have enjoyed the change!

Instinct

[JordanC]

I understand your psychological dilemma as I too sometimes feel like the "grind" is getting a little boring, although you're making a steady profit, you'd like to add some spice to your winning ways.

SNG's are definitely the way to go, yet I wouldn't start basing more than 25% of my online play with them. The $5 and $10 SNG's are extremely easy to place in the money, but usually you can make more grinding it out in ring play than placing at these tables. The $20 or $30 SNG's are well worth the investment, money-wise and time-wise.

I play on PokerStars, so the competition is a little stronger than on PartyPoker, but the structure is so much more beneficial, $1500 chips, 10 minute levels, it's not a crapshoot like Party's SNG structure.

I find the key to making the steadiest ROI is to play absurdly tight in the first two levels, very tight in the next two and opening it up afterwards. As tournament players can attest to, survival is key. Treat the SNG as such, you'll find that you'll be down to 5 players barely playing any hands. Of course, you'll almost always be short-stacked, so learning how to play uphill is very important. Get involved in pots when you're the clear favorite, but don't look to double-up right away. Remember, this is about making money, not winning it all.

Most players I see at SNG's waste too much energy making plays in the first two levels. Don't follow them down that road. The blinds are small enough that you would rather lose them not playing than getting involved and risking even more. You're going to need all the ammunition you can get playing as the short stack later. Even with this advice in mind, I never suggest completely "sitting out" the first two levels. If you've got a big advantage, profit from it. Just don't give away your chips at all - don't give up anything!

Conservative play will commonly get you into the top 3 money places a good deal of the time, and with the right plays, win the whole damn thing. I'm perfectly happy spending an hour profiting $14 at a 20SNG, still more per hour I can make grinding out the low-limit ring games.

--- JordanC
Poker Comic

[alekhine8]

On playing tight:

Once I played the first level (playing one hand and winning about T150), stepped away for a minute to take care of something.. forgot I was playing and came back 20 minutes later to find myself in third.

Theres so many people playing the NL games that just cant resist bluffing all-in. Just wait it out and you'll be fine.

[westmt01]

I think this is great advice on how to play the SNGs, especially at Party. It seems that almost every one I've played at (at the $5 and $10 games), someone goes out on the very first hand. Letting the maniacs knock each other out is the best way to go.

I don't make as much at the SNGs than at the ring games either, but it's a great way to take a break and get focused. And make some cash at the same time!

[Instinct]

Thanks for comments.
Last night I played 3 more. I came in 3rd in one which was hilarious because I only had 45 chips left when the blinds were 100-200. One player with about 1800 chips raised 600 with QQ and then the big stack with 3000 came over the top and re-raised and QQ went all in. The big stack had A2 clubs and spiked an ace and i got 3rd. I couldn't beleive it.
In the other 2 I was knoocked out early. This maniac had raises all in 3 times during first 4 hands and once showed 89s. I was in Sm with AKs and called his all in raise, he had j10 and made a straight. Would you guys have called his all in raise with AKs in the first round?

In the other I raised 100 from ep with AA, mp raised to 400, and the big blind then went all in. I called obviously and mp folded. BB had q10 diamonds and made a flush ( strange all inraise I thought !! )

I guess a quick exit will happen once in a while!



Instinct