Reads on how fast someone bets...

[MobbDeep]

I havent seen it here so i thought i might ask.

Do u guys ever get reads on people on how fast they bet?
I found this VERY useful, of course it doesnt work everytime, cause they might be multi tabling or doing something else, but you can really get ALOT out of a player just looking at how he bets, you get a feel for the game.

I think most of u guys here are against it, cause u wanna play your ABC poker and every move must be the best mathematical move.

BTW: as im typing i played this hand and the call on turn is alot based on my "feel" about his betting (he made a instant potbet on turn for example).


<font color="red"> I DO NOT WANT ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR HAND! </font>


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($49.25)
MP2 ($48.60)
MP3 ($239.24)
CO ($85.80)
Button ($54.65)
SB ($50.60)
BB ($85.05)
UTG ($49)
UTG+1 ($50)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls $2, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>.

Flop: ($4.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to $8</font>, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($20.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets $19.75</font>, Hero calls $19.75.

River: ($60.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Final Pot: $60.25

Hero has Jc Js (two pair, jacks and twos).
MP3 has 9c 7s (two pair, sevens and twos).
Outcome: Hero wins $60.25.


<font color="red"> I DO NOT WANT ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR HAND! </font>

[whittiphil]

I do... if they're take forever before pushing allin on the flop, I figure it's an overpair like JJ and they're scared of your aggression cos they don't know where they stand.

Not sure it's +EV though - I've been wrong so many times (they don't have cable, etc)

nah, I use this all the time... maybe Im just not smart enough for the math.

my favorite way to use this is when Im trying to determine whether or not they're on a draw. At the 25nl level, Im giving them damn near 1:1 odds, and they pause a long time, and then call (as long as I know it's not internet related), Im putting them on the draw.

oh, and a note about fish. they tend to take a long time before betting or raising with a monster... its more of that acting weak when strong.

[pokerjoker]

usually a quick 2 or 3 bet means monster. Thinking for ~15-20 sec then call means mediocre hand. Thinking for ~30-40 sec could mean monster but isint that reliable.

[Neil Stevens]

I'm reluctant to use online delays for anything, because I never know if there was some external factor causing a delay.

[FlyingStart]

Yeah of course it could be some external reason, but most of the time it's not.. I think these types of tell can be used to tip the scale sometimes, but I never use them to decide a big decision alone.

If a player usually acts quickly, and then thinks on a particular hand, it's because there is something different about it to him. You can use this knowledge and infer things from it. For example:

I'm playing a guy heads-up. He usually acts within 2-4 seconds. I bet 2 big blinds preflop with JK off and he thinks for 5-6 seconds, then calls. He probably either has a particularly marginal hand, or a very strong hand. Otherwise, what was he thinking about?

Flop comes A T 5. He bets the pot. I reraise. Why? Because if he was calling preflop on something strong, it's because he was intending to mask it. He most likely didn't change his mind on the flop here. I'm guessing he either has a pocket pair where the ace scares him, or just trash.

[energyjoe]

I don't rely on information about how long it takes to think because of network delays. But I've extracted some pretty good reads from aggressive players who decide preflop that they are going to outplay me. I'm very tight (VPIP 14-17% in 6 max), sometimes weak and passive player who lot of people think they can bully out of every pot. After I've been pushed out of the pot few times by instant action I'm not giving much credit anymore.

I mean, other players must know that when I raise preflop they are up against AA-99, AK-AJ very often. If flop isn't coordinated or is coordinated with high cards and I get instantly called/raised on flop and/or turn what could it possibly mean? Doesn't my enemy really have to think longer about what he is doing?

In many cases, instant action means that it has been decided in advance to push other player out of the pot. Hence no need to think deeply.